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Why Does Allah Want Us To Believe Jesus Was Crucified?

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Muslims seem to have a diverse set of beliefs on what that verse exactly means. I've heard anything from Christ actually being crucified but not dying (i.e. surviving the crucifixion) to a disciple of Christ being made to look like him so he could take his place. It's an interesting topic to say the least and it seems there is not consensus among our Muslim friends. Have you heard any other interpretations?

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The interesting thing about that verse is that it's addressed to Jews and not Christians. The Jews Muhammad was in contact with apparently were making a mockery of the fact that they killed Jesus, to which the Quran basically responds, 'no you did not, and the trick's on you!' For he was not crucified, but it was only made to appear to be so. To me this rings of a gnostic element, and it makes me wonder what type of "Christians" were inhabiting the Hijaaz. But the main point is that without the sacrificial understanding of the crucifixion, and the realization that it was the fulfillment of numerous prophecies, it is nothing more than a senseless and barbaric act, and how could God allow one of his chosen prophets to die in such a way? Surely he would protect them in their hour of need. So the purpose of the illusion seems to be a retort of some sort, but again, Muslims aren't unanimous in their understanding of this verse, ironically the last part of verse 4:157 can be applied to them.

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I doubt that Jesus stood laughing that he "fooled everyone " , I doubt if God was "playing a trick on anyone " , not to mention that for Christians the Crucifixion has a totally different meaning than from anything Islam may say .

 

Being crucified and suffering death  for the sins of all mankind for all time is a concept unknown  to Islam .

 

 And of course to  Christians it means if there was no death , then there was no Resurrection . 

 

Romans knew  well the art of   crucifixion , and did not make any mistakes as to whether their victim was dead or alive . Not to mention no human would be able to walk merely three days after somehow surviving a Roman crucifixion . There were books written by skeptics  like  "The Passover Plot " the most famous, that makes the same claims .

 

 

There is a saying most are familiar with

 

"eat ,drink , and be merry , for tomorrow we die "   but what is left out is the beginning of that saying - " If Christ is not Risen "

 

 In addition , I don't think it realistic or logical to think  that the Apostles and the followers of Jesus in those times and for millennia on , would go to their deaths based upon a lie or a "trick " .

 

 

Believe what you wish .

Edited by Aligarr

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That is the issue isn't it. If Christ did not rise then Christianity is a lie and we're either all still in our sins with no way to atone for them except to ask for Gods' mercy. Or he did rise and we still have to ask for Gods' mercy but we also have a sacrificial offering in his Son the Word Jesus Christ who is a just judge for having lived among us he is like man in all things save sin.

 

Peace be with you.

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That is part of the reason why I had a hard time when I looked into Islam. The Islamic view of Jesus should literally make perfect sense for Christians to understand especially if it's Gods final revelation as Mohammed is the seal of the prophets on Islam. None can ever come after him. Yet, the way Christianity is portrayed in the Koran and hadiths the holiest scriptures in Islam is so radically different than what the majority of Christians believe do much so that is why many don't convert to Islam from Christianity unless they themselves have difficulty with the Christian scriptures, That's my own opinion of course. But it does explain it.

 

Peace be with you.

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Oh and Jesus was crucified. No appearance about it, no disciple made to look like it; he did indeed get crucified and in so doing saved all of us. How? You may ask. Well for example, behind the sermon on the mount, stands the figure of Christ. The man who is God, but precisely because he is God, descends, empties himself, all the way to death on a cross. The true morality of Christianity is sacrificial love. It runs counter to the world and for this reason the world is hostile to it.

 

Peace be with you.

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That is part of the reason why I had a hard time when I looked into Islam. The Islamic view of Jesus should literally make perfect sense for Christians to understand especially if it's Gods final revelation as Mohammed is the seal of the prophets on Islam. None can ever come after him. Yet, the way Christianity is portrayed in the Koran and hadiths the holiest scriptures in Islam is so radically different than what the majority of Christians believe do much so that is why many don't convert to Islam from Christianity unless they themselves have difficulty with the Christian scriptures, That's my own opinion of course. But it does explain it.

Peace be with you.

Yet, the way Christianity is portrayed in the Koran and hadiths the holiest scriptures in Islam is so radically different than what the majority of Christians believe

When I read the Quran I have trouble recognising Christians as Christians are and what we believe. I believe it's because the "Christians" referred to in the Quran were likely various "Christian" sects that populated Arabia at the time. It makes sense to me because these were the Christians Mohammed would have had knowledge of. I read that he had a relative that was a "Christian" monk, a Nestorian. If I remember correctly he believed in Mohammed as a prophet, yet still died a Christian, I found that bit odd to say the least.

 

The Crucifixion did happen, if it did not I think the Quran would have dealt with the issue more concisely, there are too many ifs and buts for an event of such importance. But, then again I don't think it deals with the virgin birth very well either. It does not recognise why it was needed, why Jesus was born this way. That's just my opinion.

 

Peace be with you too gmcbroom. :) I like your posts.

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When I read the Quran I have trouble recognising Christians as Christians are and what we believe. I believe it's because the "Christians" referred to in the Quran were likely various "Christian" sects that populated Arabia at the time. It makes sense to me because these were the Christians Mohammed would have had knowledge of. I read that he had a relative that was a "Christian" monk, a Nestorian. If I remember correctly he believed in Mohammed as a prophet, yet still died a Christian, I found that bit odd to say the least.

 

The Crucifixion did happen, if it did not I think the Quran would have dealt with the issue more concisely, there are too many ifs and buts for an event of such importance. But, then again I don't think it deals with the virgin birth very well either. It does not recognise why it was needed, why Jesus was born this way. That's just my opinion.

 

Peace be with you too gmcbroom. :) I like your posts.

 

FULL - Ahmed Deedat Vs Robert Douglas - Crucifixion - Fact or Fiction?

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Andalusi, I still am unable to open the links you post. However, I found the clip on YouTube. Interesting, but not helpful from a Muslim point of view, if you were thinking to help your case any on the issue of the crucifixion. I felt Mr Deedat gave a very poor account of himself, is that his usual approach? Maybe I should check out some more debates in which he took part.

 

At the end given evidence from both sides I was left with the conclusion that the crucifixion was defiantly fact on fiction.

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Andalusi, I still am unable to open the links you post. However, I found the clip on YouTube. Interesting, but not helpful from a Muslim point of view, if you were thinking to help your case any on the issue of the crucifixion. I felt Mr Deedat gave a very poor account of himself, is that his usual approach? Maybe I should check out some more debates in which he took part.

 

At the end given evidence from both sides I was left with the conclusion that the crucifixion was defiantly fact on fiction.

 

if you are so sure about crusifiction, when did it occur, at what times on the day??? tell me

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if you are so sure about crusifiction, when did it occur, at what times on the day??? tell me

Ha.. Depends if you are using Jewish time or Roman time. Third hour or sixth hour... You need to understand time wasn't measured as it is today. But I think you know that and are just seeking to make yet another one of your erroneous points of biblical contradiction. Sorry it's not there, only your misunderstanding of the wider context. :)

 

I'm sure if I asked you would be able to give a full account of Mohammed's every waking hour. ;)

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Ha.. Depends if you are using Jewish time or Roman time. Third hour or sixth hour... You need to understand time wasn't measured as it is today. But I think you know that and are just seeking to make yet another one of your erroneous points of biblical contradiction. Sorry it's not there, only your misunderstanding of the wider context. :)

 

I'm sure if I asked you would be able to give a full account of Mohammed's every waking hour. ;)

 

what is your proof that those two are jewish time and roman time?

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Andalusi,

 

Hello old friend. Tell me at the end of the day why don't you believe in the crucifixion ?

 

Peace be with you.

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Andalusi,

 

Hello old friend. Tell me at the end of the day why don't you believe in the crucifixion ?

 

Peace be with you.

 

first i dont believe in crusicition beacuse God has informed us that Jesus was never crucified, instead someone else was crusified wich probabaly looked like jesus.

 

second, even if quran never spoke about crusifiction if i only had bible, i would not believe it beacuse i have studied bible for 11 years now and that is not book wich is 100% true, truth are mixed with false information, so you dont know anymore what is true what is false if you dont have the reference, wich is quran in this case, an unchanged book of God wich is guidence of mankind wich gives instructions how to decode bible and understand it.

 

third, this idea of crusificion is not logical at all, why would God punish innnocent man for the sake of sinners, why not forgive the sins of people who repent to God and that is it, even your book say, no one shall put to death for other, everyone shall put to death for their own sins, and that is absolutely logical, no human on earth can claim others, no muslim, no jew, no atheist can claim otehrwise to punish innocent people, but you christian stand out, and claim otherwise than you holy book bible and even worse, your logic.

 

so there is absolutely 1% attractive idea to believe that innocent jesus(who even cried to God to save him from death) shall put to death for other sinners, is totally ridicolous and it rapes my mind and logic only.

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Andalusi,

 

Thank you for your honest response. Personally I believe the crucifixion happened because the Catholic Church says so.

 

Peace be with you.

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Andalusi,

 

Thank you for your honest response. Personally I believe the crucifixion happened because the Catholic Church says so.

 

Peace be with you.

 

and how ca you be so sure that they are right???

 

were they present at the time of crusifixion??? no so how can you base your faith on people who was never there, this is just sad.

 

to accept blind faith , an illogical faith wich is against your logic, beacuse if police would put you in jail beacuse someone else robbed the bank is not logical and justice, same it is with jesus it is not logical that innocent man shall die for you.

 

i would never and never believe any Imam/mosque says something without proof, it is rejected in Islam, to talk without proof, we cant base our faith on people ideas, we base our faith on prophets sayings.

Edited by andalusi

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Andalusi,

 

What you state is very logical my friend and as you are a Muslim you should follow that path unless your called to a different one. To and frankly to most what Catholics follow is folly. This we understand and accept as your view. It is not ours however. I'd be happy to explain.

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Andalusi,

 

Catholics are called to a radical conversion to Jesus Christ. We truly believe the church is the bride of Christ and that means we accept her teachings. There is a passage in the New Testament where Jesus asks his disciples the 12 will they go too? To which Peter responds master where would we go? you have the words of everlasting life. Andalusi you are right to say it seems illogical and rapes your mind. I don't disagree since that's the view taken by many in the early church days as well. So, then you probably think all Christians are crazy or at the very least misguided. I understand this and that is one of our differences. I do believe the Catholic Church is the one Jesus Christ empowered on Pentecost. Yes there have been and will continue to be bad priests deacons bishops. That's unavoidable as the church is made of human beings. Yet those men ordained are empowered by the laying on of hands through ordination, And the Holy Spirit. The church has the Eucharist the body blood soul and divinity of our lord Jesus Christ. In short we believe Jesus is God and he founded a church. I believe the Eucharist is truly the body blood soul a divinity of our lord Jesus Christ because the church says so. Since I believe the church gave us the bible selecting the proper Old Testament canon and writing the New Testament they have some say in what books go where. I am aware that some scholars dispute books in the bible. That's fine by me I just follow the church and in so doing follow God

 

Peace be with you.

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Andalusi,

 

As for how can I be so sure? Well frankly I take it on faith. Now what helps my faith is the church teachings, the church councils, and traditions. True the church has gone through trials and she will always do so. That's expected but her core beliefs remain the same ie consistent. What is that? That Jesus Christ is Gods Word, the Son of Man. That Jesus is God thus The Lord of the sabbath. This is a hard saying and many can't handle it both back then and even today. Buts it's the truth of the Catholic Church which preaches Christ crucified.

 

Peace be with you.

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first i dont believe in crusicition beacuse God has informed us that Jesus was never crucified, instead someone else was crusified wich probabaly looked like jesus.

 

second, even if quran never spoke about crusifiction if i only had bible, i would not believe it beacuse i have studied bible for 11 years now and that is not book wich is 100% true, truth are mixed with false information, so you dont know anymore what is true what is false if you dont have the reference, wich is quran in this case, an unchanged book of God wich is guidence of mankind wich gives instructions how to decode bible and understand it.

 

third, this idea of crusificion is not logical at all, why would God punish innnocent man for the sake of sinners, why not forgive the sins of people who repent to God and that is it, even your book say, no one shall put to death for other, everyone shall put to death for their own sins, and that is absolutely logical, no human on earth can claim others, no muslim, no jew, no atheist can claim otehrwise to punish innocent people, but you christian stand out, and claim otherwise than you holy book bible and even worse, your logic.

 

so there is absolutely 1% attractive idea to believe that innocent jesus(who even cried to God to save him from death) shall put to death for other sinners, is totally ridicolous and it rapes my mind and logic only.

Andalusi, how does the Quran give instruction on how to "decode" the Bible and understand it?

 

On another point, it seems that muslims cannot accept the fact that God would allow a prophet to suffer such a cruel death, but that is only because you do not understand the reason behind the crucifixion. You don't see sin in the same way and so don't see the need for atonement. You believe that God can just forgive sin as per His will, and all we have to do is be repentant, and do good deeds or whatever. The Muslim view of the crucifixion is down to how they view sin. God did not punish Jesus for our sins, Jesus gave His life for ours.

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Andalusi,

 

As for how can I be so sure? Well frankly I take it on faith. Now what helps my faith is the church teachings, the church councils, and traditions. True the church has gone through trials and she will always do so. That's expected but her core beliefs remain the same ie consistent. What is that? That Jesus Christ is Gods Word, the Son of Man. That Jesus is God thus The Lord of the sabbath. This is a hard saying and many can't handle it both back then and even today. Buts it's the truth of the Catholic Church which preaches Christ crucified.

 

Peace be with you.

 

you dont think with your own head, you let church think for you.

 

i could never accept something illogical from Islam, that is just not me, i dont want to have blind faith, in islma you have to have evidence for everything.

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Andalusi, how does the Quran give instruction on how to "decode" the Bible and understand it?

 

On another point, it seems that muslims cannot accept the fact that God would allow a prophet to suffer such a cruel death, but that is only because you do not understand the reason behind the crucifixion. You don't see sin in the same way and so don't see the need for atonement. You believe that God can just forgive sin as per His will, and all we have to do is be repentant, and do good deeds or whatever. The Muslim view of the crucifixion is down to how they view sin. God did not punish Jesus for our sins, Jesus gave His life for ours.

 

 

 

Andalusi, how does the Quran give instruction on how to "decode" the Bible and understand it?

 

 

since quran is unchanged word of God, everything quran says is true, it is not word of a man, but word of God. so when it comes to faith matter and prophets lives we can allways refer to quran if we dont know something.

 

 

let me give you an example

 

Thay saw God

(Exodus 24:9-11) – “Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of israel, 10 and they saw the God of israel;

 

vs 

 

No one can see God

(John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time;

 

so what is true here?

 

Quran come in and help in clearlfiying thing

 

 {Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision, and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted.}[Quran 6:103]

 

so exodus is wrong and John1:18  is correct.

 

 

 

On another point, it seems that muslims cannot accept the fact that God would allow a prophet to suffer such a cruel death, 

 

 

That Jesus is God thus The Lord of the sabbath. 

but did you christian friend not said tha tJesus is God, so God would allow God/prophet to suffer such a cruel death, 

 

how can yo believe such nonsence, this is totally against any logic and mind.

 

 

 God did not punish Jesus for our sins, Jesus gave His life for ours. 

 

no he did not give life, beacuse jesus himself cried to God to save him from death, i dont see anything here in giving

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