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How do Muslims make the argument against polytheism and the current rise in paganism?

 

What is the Islamic argument for why paganism is a false religion and the disliking towards magic when a person like myself would consider it a true theology and a natural default one at that. 

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The natural default wouldn't be paganism nor magic. Its a logical fact that all things must have been created by one deity.

If there are several gods, then one of them must have created them all, and since they were created, they are not gods, but creatures of the one and only creator. Call it magic, call it nature.. however you call it, its God..

He is Allah, [who is] One.

Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born.
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.
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The natural default wouldn't be paganism nor magic. Its a logical fact that all things must have been created by one deity.

If there are several gods, then one of them must have created them all, and since they were created, they are not gods, but creatures of the one and only creator. Call it magic, call it nature.. however you call it, its God..

He is Allah, [who is] One.

Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born.
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

If one god requires no greator, why would two gods require one? If we cannot explain how God came about, how can we say that it couldn't apply to more than one? If God always existed with no cause, why could not more than one god have always existed? I'm not saying that they did, just that there does not appear to be any argument against it other than the religions with one god saying that there is only one.

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Oddly enough , polytheism would be a natural default if one does not accept monotheism . And it would  be no surprise if magic accompanied [ almost always does ] polytheism . Not excluding monotheism .

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The natural default wouldn't be paganism nor magic.
How would you know? What is your evidence for this? History has shown that the earliest religion still practiced is Hinduism and it fits into the paradigm we call paganism. It is more intellectually evolved and theologically sound when compared to Islam although Hinduism is vastly complex and divided.
 

 

Its a logical fact that all things must have been created by one deity.
What is your reasoning for this? I can easily conclude a monistic approach that uses kathenotheism in a proper manner to support polytheism.
1 Power, 1 Will and Multiple Deities.
 
Islam already supports polytheism int his regard since Allah(1 Will and 1 Power) uses the mala'ikah to do his will. If you do not recall clearly you should remember that angels do not have free will yet they are a vast multitude of beings in Islamic theology.
Using a semantical approach all you have to do is replace angel with god or deity and you can make a pantheon.
 The worship of a multitude can also be validated with kathenotheism as I said earlier since in a kathenotheistic approach one can worship a multitude of deities and acknowledge they have the same will and divinity behind them making each one supreme int heir own right.
 

 

If there are several gods, then one of them must have created them all, and since they were created, they are not gods, but creatures of the one and only creator. Call it magic, call it nature.. however you call it, its God..
The demiurge is what most individuals who have explored theology call a creator deity.
 
If god creates something it does not invalidate itself. I am not under the impression god created other gods but that gods is infinite and by infinite I mean entirely void of a default position. So monotheistic or polytheistic concepts are irrelevant along with good or evil. 
 

 

 

He is Allah, [who is] One.

Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born.
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.
 
 

 

As a pagan I could not agree anymore with that statement especially considering my fascination with pre-Islamic theology

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If one god requires no greator, why would two gods require one? If we cannot explain how God came about, how can we say that it couldn't apply to more than one? If God always existed with no cause, why could not more than one god have always existed? I'm not saying that they did, just that there does not appear to be any argument against it other than the religions with one god saying that there is only one.

 

What many fail to realize is that when you assign infinite to god you are also applying numbers to god as 1 is not infinite. Infinite implies the state of being "innumerable". This would mean that God is uncountable in nature, wills, desires, emotions, ethics, morality and appearances.

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If one god requires no greator, why would two gods require one? If we cannot explain how God came about, how can we say that it couldn't apply to more than one?

Simply because, there must be something that started it all. And that something is the one worthy of your worship, not the claimed gods that were all created later.

If you saw a painting that you liked, would you credit the doors and walls in that painting, or the artist who created that masterpiece?

 

Worshiping the one who created us is a natural instinct that we are all born with, until later when someone in our life, or some man-made theory changes that. We don't get born with a default thingie to worship multiple gods. This is against the nature, and against logic.

 

Nothing creates itself. But only one thing must have started it all. If you people don't agree with that, then every word you say is anything but logical.

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Simply because, there must be something that started it all. And that something is the one worthy of your worship, not the claimed gods that were all created later.

This just illustrates my point. You say that there must be something that started it, but that thing did not need something to start it. There does not appear to be any logical argument that says that whatever is infinite has to be a single entity.

 

Worshiping the one who created us is a natural instinct that we are all born with. We don't get born with a default thingie to worship multiple gods. This is against the nature, and against logic.

We must bear in mind that monotheism is quite a recent development. Animism and polytheism were the norm as far back as historians and anthropoligists can determine.

 

Nothing creates itself. But only one thing must have started it all. If you people don't agree with that, then every word you say is anything but logical.

Again, you need to present an argument as to why the infinite can only be singular, rather than just insisting that it must be so.

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If the Universe was created , then it is logical that there is the ONE who created it , for if there were several creators they inturn would have to have been created by the ONE .

 

p.s." several universes" are only in the realm of theory at the moment .The stuff of theoretical physics .

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If the Universe was created , then it is logical that there is the ONE who created it , for if there were several creators they inturn would have to have been created by the ONE.

Every person has two parents. Pieces of music ofter have more than one composer. There is no logic that says that anything created must have a singular creator. Not saying it is not the case, just that logic does not demand it. Also, as I said before, there is no logical requirement for the infinite to be singular, as far as I am aware. Is it not possible that there exists a collective intelligence, made up of more than one but acting as one?

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You know  we are at  " the chicken or the egg " part of the discussion .  You also know that there are creatures alive today that need no mate to reproduce nor donation of sperm .

 When you come to think of the human psyche there are really only three roads to take , One God , Many gods , or NO God at all .  We choose then live our lives accordingly .  The trick is to do it without killing each other .

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You know  we are at  " the chicken or the egg " part of the discussion .  You also know that there are creatures alive today that need no mate to reproduce nor donation of sperm .

 When you come to think of the human psyche there are really only three roads to take , One God , Many gods , or NO God at all .  We choose then live our lives accordingly .  The trick is to do it without killing each other .

. . . . . and without harming each other.

Instead, we helping each other.

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Every person has two parents. Pieces of music ofter have more than one composer. There is no logic that says that anything created must have a singular creator.

I now understand why the concept of the oneness of our creator is hard for you to grasp, seeing that you compare it to how we people get children and how we co-produce our works. But if you stop looking around you for explanations, just for a while, and think deeper for a change, you'd probably be able to understand why there must be none other than one creator that started the whole universe. Everything else is simply created, including your imaginary multi-gods.

 

Or stick to your nonsense thoughts. comparing god to people and music. Its your life, and your choice.

But don't claim you're logical. Funny maybe, but not logical, because you're anything but.

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I now understand why the concept of the oneness of our creator is hard for you to grasp, seeing that you compare it to how we people get children and how we co-produce our works. But if you stop looking around you for explanations, just for a while, and think deeper for a change, you'd probably be able to understand why there must be none other than one creator that started the whole universe. Everything else is simply created, including your imaginary multi-gods.

 

Or stick to your nonsense thoughts. comparing god to people and music. Its your life, and your choice.

But don't claim you're logical. Funny maybe, but not logical, because you're anything but.

It's not a matter of it being hard to grasp. The people and music analogy was in reply to the statement

 

If the Universe was created , then it is logical that there is the ONE who created it

I was asking for the logical justification for assuming that the infinite must be a singular entity.

Your justification is, like Aligarr's, that it must be. I'm not arguing either way. I am merely looking for the different arguments so that I can weigh them up. Telling me to ...

 

stop looking around you for explanations...and think deeper for a change

doesn't explain anything. Why must the infinite supernatural be a single entity? Is there a reason for this other than the inherited belief of monotheism?

Again, I hold no position here yet but I would like reasoned argument rather than assertion to base my decisions on.

 

Just a thought, but as the concept of God/s is to be outside of time & space, infinite and uncaused, then surely the idea of assigning numbers is utterly futile. I personally think that is probably closer to the truth. Polytheism has no less justification than monotheism if the individual gods are expressing parts of what is otherwise expessed as a whole.

 

But don't claim you're logical. Funny maybe, but not logical, because you're anything but.

OK Einstein! Set out your logical argument that the infinite supernatural must be a single, personal, anthropormorphised being.

Remeber to use only logic, not assertions, assumptions or scripture.

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MarineLiner , I think killing covers dislike , persecution and everything in between .  It's a matter of live and let live and be satisfied with that .  Ultimately each man is accountable for his own beliefs and  actions only .

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Popcorn in hand.

 

 

Aligarr your post above about One God, Many Gods, or No God at all was very eloquent and to the point of the issue. As for why the One God argument is a more popular argument to make is because meshes with logic more easily, But even today it still comes down to the uncaused cause. Or why is there something rather than nothing.

 

Peace be with you.

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But don't claim you're logical. Funny maybe, but not logical, because you're anything but.

OK Einstein! Set out your logical argument that the infinite supernatural must be a single, personal, anthropormorphised being.

Remeber to use only logic, not assertions, assumptions or scripture.

From your lack of response, I deduce that you do not have a logical argument for your case. We can therefore agree that there are just as likely to be two or more gods than just the one.

 

Again, I am not concluding either way, just saying that the logic does not definitavely point to one or the other.

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As for why the One God argument is a more popular argument to make is because meshes with logic more easily.

Not if you subscribe to one of the polytheist religions! It only seems that way because that is your cultural expectation.

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QED,

 

The reason it meshes more logically with monotheism rather than polytheism has more to do with the nature of the Gods or Goddesses themselves in relation with order and chaos. Think of it as multiple voices all screaming at once. That seems more like chaos than order to me. Your right though my culture may have a lot to do with it. Though I do live in the US, it's not a Christian or Muslim nation. It's more accurate to call it a polytheistic nation bordering with atheistic tendencies . It is mission territory.

 

Peace be with you.

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Think of it as multiple voices all screaming at once. That seems more like chaos than order to me.

Think of it as a well run organisation, with department heads dealing with their own particular speciality. Or a co-operative if you prefer (I do!)

 

Though I do live in the US, it's not a Christian or Muslim nation. It's more accurate to call it a polytheistic nation bordering with atheistic tendencies . It is mission territory.

Certainly looks like a Christian nation from the outside! (Also looked like one from the inside when I lived in the South in the early '80s).

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QED,

 

Yes and looks can be very deceiving. Case in point though there is a strong Christian presence here churches abound yet the message is very diffuse. There are faiths of all kinds here and paganism is strong though it may not be the type your thinking of. Look at it like this idolatry is worshipping something as God that is due to God alone. In the US people worship success, money, power, sex, food, celebrity,gossip, and even their own body. Not all but I'd say a majority. Thus the paganism I speak of isn't of Norse, Greek, roman origin but vices in their place. There temples are the gyms, board and living rooms of American society . Still, the US isn't beyond hope. So long as good people stand up to injustice and practice their faith.

 

Peace be with you.

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