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Boko Haram In Africa

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They are quite a bit MORE than simply misguided . And the whole of the Umma worldwide should be vehemently condemning them for this act .

Edited by Aligarr

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Of course it is bad. There are few things which could be worse.

Unfortunately, the people doing this will point to sura and hadith that they believe justify their actions.

This is the problem with deriving morals from scripture rather than from empathy and the Golden Rule (one should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself).

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Wahidian , you "wonder "if anyone really cares ?    Seriously ?    I can tell you that the people of Nigeria care ,  I can tell you that many people around the Globe who really care , and they are expressing that as we speak . And I can guarantee you that there are atleast 500 parents of these children really care .

  So WHY do you wonder ?

 

I wonder why I am not hearing the same outrage from certain nations that should care also, and from Islamic religious leaders who should be declaring this outrage as an evil act , and issuing strongly worded Fatwah's condemning it .

 

Boko Haram is  not merely misguided as Absolute Truth states , but they are absolutely wrong , savage and barbaric . Boko Haram should return these children or be utterly eliminated as an evil malignancy is removed from a body .

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Well, personally I'd like to know how they've derived their ideolgy - assuming that they have any rational reasons for what they believe and their subsequent actions.

Their name seems to indicate that they are an organisation who simply believe in the wrongness and corruption inherent in Western education.

Their leader claims to be obeying direct commands from Allah. This would be grounds for admission to a mental hospital in many parts of the world. But it also seems to point to the dangers of messianistic religions per se.

 

The Umma does not generally go in for condemming or condoning the actions of individual groups.

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What does that have to do with your wondering if anyone cares , Wahidian  ?  Any sane person knows it is wrong . And any sane person would care what happens to kidnapped children .

Edited by Aligarr

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it's haram (forbidden) to do so in Islam, and the state judging for those who kidnap any person, after proving the case, is to be killed. In my point of view, this video is not a proof, unless if this person is a well known leader in such group.

 

BUT, this is general overview and not for a specific case;

 

I like to advise those who like to be a peace messengers or judges of such cases to try to have the whole picture, from both sides not only media points of view. a little bit  historical background and circumstances. So they can see the amount of Quantitative and Qualitative abuse of both sides, finally they can judge the case just like fair persons. 

Because it's well known that extra oppression will have a violent reaction for any group of people what ever their religion, this is not an excuse to them as well.

 

I'm sorry about these videos, I, personally, couldn't watch them ; by the way it's very rare in English language, who cares; 

 

for example you may hear from the innocent Nigerian army that they deal with the Muslems justly, do you believe so...?!

 

 

here is what is happening in Burma for almost two years and still going on, who cares, they are Muslems

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OzXfDpcVDE

 

 

here is what is going on Central Africa, few months ago and still going on, who cares,,,,

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXWYmfXVj80

 

 

my argument will be; who, among those who think they are fare, did defend those oppressed Mslems??!!

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You are attempting to justify such actions by Boko Haram . You are providing an excuse and a rationale .

 

And that is at the heart of the problem . That is why this group has gotten as far as it has . You are saying that what they are doing is terrible ........ .but look over here at this.

 

Well because Boko Haram and it's actions have not been roundly condemned in the past , by the same rationale you have expressed , they have continued to operate over the years , and now have been emboldened to commit this horrendous act . And this will yet bring more persecution of Muslims in Nigeria . So it will no doubt be blood for blood . And over the years I have not heard any outrage such as has been expressed over cartoons , yet that same outrage is absent regarding this act by Boko Haram .

Edited by Aligarr

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You are attempting to justify such actions by Boko Haram . You are providing an excuse and a rationale .

 

And that is at the heart of the problem . That is why this group has gotten as far as it has . You are saying that what they are doing is terrible ........ .but look over here at this.

 

Well because Boko Haram and it's actions have not been roundly condemned in the past , by the same rationale you have expressed , they have continued to operate over the years , and now have been emboldened to commit this horrendous act . And this will yet bring more persecution of Muslims in Nigeria . So it will no doubt be blood for blood . And over the years I have not heard any outrage such as has been expressed over cartoons , yet that same outrage is absent regarding this act by Boko Haram .

 

Although I rejected what this group did, if it's proven, and claimed that the Islamic punishment of such  thing is killing, which I believe it's over what you may imagine.  only for your knowledge, I shared in a group that asked those people to release the girls without any delay and request a respected Muslem delegation to go there to investigate the problem and clarify Islamic point of view.

 

while I see that solving the whole problem is also a good thing as well. removing the causes of the disease is important just like fighting the Symptoms.  Dealing with the Muslems through this barbaric way is not accepted as well, and watching this and just ignoring it is not good.

 

 for those who like to play the role of  peace ambassador and human rights' defenders, they should to be able to see the whole picture, be fair and courageous enough  to blame all the wronged elements in the conflict. Acting like a one eye and one ear person that's the real problem in this world. while this may solve this specific problem it, just, will transfer the reaction to another point.

 

SO Strange, Aligarr!!!!    assume, just assume, that one of your beloved ones, a son, or two, brother,....etc., hope you can feel it, was in one of these videos. now you are a peaceful man and will just keep silent while your other brother just acted studiedly and violently.  now, some one asks you to denounce your brother's action and you, honestly, did; and criticized also the aggressive actions against your brother. do you think this is unfair?!! 

 

It seems you are highly disgusted  by what the Nigerian army is doing to the innocent civilian Muslems, that you have your self unable to say this is wrong as well. But let me ask you, did you know about these atrocities?! or see any of these videos in your media?! what was your reaction?!

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Again you are rationalizing the act . And that is the problem .  With a mindset such as yours , I guess just about any act can be justified .

 Tell me , with all that you listed , how much of it do you think those 275 children are guilty of ?

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it seems we have a miss-communication problem here,

Although I support your point of view and defend the girls just like you and ask for a higher punishment than you will ask for the kidnappers, on the contrary you are trying to prevent me from standing for another kind of unfair violence and point out one other side of the main bigger problem which should prevent repeating these actions.

 

I'm sure you aren't among those who like to disgrace Muslems and keep propagating there mistakes, while keep silent as if he is not here in the opposite cases, which is the dominant situation in the world now.

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No you are WRONG . This is not a question "disgracing muslims " as you so erroneously assume . There is trouble everywhere on the globe ,  there are horrendous acts being committed by all the people of the Earth . What I take exception to in your remarks , is the diversion to these other acts , out of the context of the particular act of which this thread bespeaks .  Care to divert to the Christians being killed and persecuted in Syria? There are Buddhist, Muslims , Hindus being persecuted all over the globe .  You call these "mistakes " of muslims ?  This is not a mistake , it is an abomination , an aberration . If the Umma can almost instantaneously unite in protest over offensive cartoons by ignorant westerners , why not THIS ?  

 That is my point . This is just the culmination of years of barbaric acts by this group claiming to be a part of Islam . Boko Haram has been operating in Nigeria for years and committing similar acts , but never have so many young women been abducted as in this instance . There has never been an organized and united outcry . The Fique in Saudi Arabia has just NOW condemned the action of Boko Haram , when Fatwah's should have been issued years ago .

 There will always be injustices elsewhere to point the finger at . But NOW is the time to let the leaders of this group know, that they  are not just "misguided or mistaken " but they are to be condemned by ALL of Islam unconditionally .The Taliban have been doing this in Afghanistan for decades , and other Islamic groups in Pakistan have shot children over the issue of woman being educated .

 

This is not Islam , and only Islam has the ability to roundly condemn and prevent it .  

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Aligarr, on 11 May 2014 - 10:06, said:

No you are WRONG . This is not a question "disgracing muslims " as you so erroneously assume . There is trouble everywhere on the globe , there are horrendous acts being committed by all the people of the Earth . What I take exception to in your remarks , is the diversion to these other acts , out of the context of the particular act of which this thread bespeaks . Care to divert to the Christians being killed and persecuted in Syria? There are Buddhist, Muslims , Hindus being persecuted all over the globe . You call these "mistakes " of muslims ? This is not a mistake , it is an abomination , an aberration . If the Umma can almost instantaneously unite in protest over offensive cartoons by ignorant westerners , why not THIS ?

That is my point . This is just the culmination of years of barbaric acts by this group claiming to be a part of Islam . Boko Haram has been operating in Nigeria for years and committing similar acts , but never have so many young women been abducted as in this instance . There has never been an organized and united outcry . The Fique in Saudi Arabia has just NOW condemned the action of Boko Haram , when Fatwah's should have been issued years ago .

There will always be injustices elsewhere to point the finger at . But NOW is the time to let the leaders of this group know, that they are not just "misguided or mistaken " but they are to be condemned by ALL of Islam unconditionally .The Taliban have been doing this in Afghanistan for decades , and other Islamic groups in Pakistan have shot children over the issue of woman being educated .

 

This is not Islam , and only Islam has the ability to roundly condemn and prevent it .

I believe there is no Muslem on this globe will not condemn this action, and if I have the capability I'll go and try to help through discussions and military action if needed.

 

But again and again, To have a historical idea about what is going on in the same area and against the same people is not a separate issue it's very connected and ultimately important. If you are trying to convince those people and if they asked you, "did you feel the same pain when watching the unfair killings of the army to the innocent Muslim Handicapped civilians? how did you try to help them?" what will be your answer?!

 

NOTE:

you are right, there are atrocities every where on the globe. my self began hearing about it when I was 8 years old, in the 80s the atheist USSR against Muslims in Afghanistan (1 Million), then the Christian against Muslems in Bosnia then Kosovo (0.4 Million), Uganda Christian against Muslims (1.5 million) Russia in Chyichnia, USA and UK in Iraq (0.7 million), Hindu Indians against Muslims in Kashmir and Assam, Burma, Central Africa......

 

Before any claims of any side, It seems we need a fair quantitative and qualitative statistics of the killers and innocent victims in this globe, to have just a real idea what ideologies teach killing and what teaches peace

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There is no claim of any side on my part , and I will not go down that road about who killed  who throughout history , because ALL parties have committed atrocities .There is no one group that is innocent . But I think you know that , unless you are extremely naïve .

 I am talking specifically about Boko Haram and it's alleged connections to Al Queda  and Islam .

 

There is no quantitative or qualitative assessment of global conditions required, to determine that what Boko Haram is doing and HAS BEEN doing , since it's creation , is patently and unequivocally wrong . This crime committed by Boko Haram , has nothing to do with any other part of history or global condition past or present .

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Any solution other than "complete justice" will not solve the problem it only may delay it or change its face. that what the fair and intelligent people reach after many experiences. keep blocking ears for the people rights , closing the eyes about the innocent killings in the streets and having only the stronger side opinion which is supported by western media is not a good idea at all.

 

Again, this is not an excuse for what they did, BUT for the sake of discussion,

for example if they requested a fair judgement for the soldiers who killed the civilian in the video, will you support there request or even transfer there point of view to the media?

 

UK kept doing this for decades against Irish people tell they organized the IRA. dealing with it as terrorist organization for decades didn't solve the problem. what solved the problem?!! removing the plugs from the ears, hearing and negotiations. many other cases along the whole world.

 

if you was there in UK, before the solution they reached, will you hear from the IRA or only the UK government?!

 

did you ever hear any thing from those people, not through the governmental nor the western media?! why?! do you, even, think this is the complete video? no claims no reasons no complains?!

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Ahmed , I understand and I am fully aware of injustices against Muslims , not only of other groups against them , but Muslim groups against Muslims groups  such as Syria , Lebanon , Yemen , Sudan ,Egypt , as well as Muslim groups persecuting Christians , Zoroastors , etc. This has been going on for centuries , after all why do you think there is a mountain range in India ,called Hindu Kush ? Do you think the Moguls were innocent ? What about the Berbers in Africa ?OR THE Armenian Genocide committed by the Turks . I am aware of the Serbs and the whole Kosovo and Srebenica incidents -where the West intervened on the Muslims behalf . I am not keeping a score card .

However in Pakistan , Afghanistan and Nigeria , there are Islamic groups opposed to education of women , and they have been killing to enforce it .This mindset is directly responsible for the creation of Boko Haram , and there is no useful dialogue that does not deal directly with that mindset , and does not settle once and for all the issue of education for women , which is resulting in exactly the horrendous act that has just taken place in Nigeria . I look for an UNQUALIFIED CONDEMNATION of such policies . And that is not to say I am not aware nor do not care about the other injustices committed against Muslims in Myanmar or even Nigeria , but that is no excuse nor rationale for this present act of terror .  The Rohingya are not accepted anywhere in the region , not simply because they are Muslim , they are descendants of several  nations which  have no homeland in any of the existing countries of the region . It is more than the fact that they happen to be Muslim , and I do not minimize their plight by saying that .

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The fact is Muslims have condemned what Boko Haram is doing. You bring up the point about the cartoons. The media loved showing the reactions of muslims to the cartoons but they don't like showing the reactions of the Muslims to Boko Haram. You can disagree but we know that there is an interesting media out there that do not like to show Muslims in a good light. The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation which consists of 57 Muslim countries have blatantly said what Boko Haram is doing is inhumane. Yet nobody cares what they say. They care about Mrs Obama's words. 

 

And I dont think Ahmad is trying to justify what they are doing. I think his point is that we should be opposed to injustice no matter who or what is involved. And I am sorry to say this but the west has really jumped on the bandwagon here in relation to Boko Haram, which they have a right to do because such groups should not go unnoticed with what they are doing, but you also have to ask why specifically this conflict and not others? Nobody is justifying what Boko Haram is doing, I definitely support education for girls but I also recognise that there are political objectives behind the involvement of some in this situation. 

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..

And I dont think Ahmad is trying to justify what they are doing. . 

 

at all, I'm just wanna hear their voice, from their own mouth,  what they complain of what they want ..... one real negotiations through a delegation that contain fair Muslems (in this case and a near ideology persons in any other case) ,  then I can give fair opinion. what could be the problem in that?!

 

Islam teaches me not to give opinions based on only one side point of view nor one scene in the play. 

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I think they've already expressed what they want . They want prisoners released , and they are against education of women . It's pretty simple . The way in which they attempt to achieve their goals was to kidnap 270 children .

 

 If you can find an excuse for that , you will have a hard time explaining it to their parents .

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I think they've already expressed what they want . They want prisoners released , and they are against education of women . It's pretty simple . The way in which they attempt to achieve their goals was to kidnap 270 children .

 

If you can find an excuse for that , you will have a hard time explaining it to their parents .

first off, To believe in what ever you like is a human right and trying to spread it peacefully is also a human right, am I right?! isn't this the way you deal with the Amish/ Mormon groups?! what if the US authority began a genocide war against the Amish, will they reply back?!?!?

 

They are against the western life style. Western education of both sexes is one of the most influential ways to spread this stile (I can't see a crime so far). i'm not sure if they are against every kind of western education or only the anti-Islamic subjects ( promoting Darwinism, Sex education, dating, safe sex adultery practicing, nudity, right of homosexuality,...... ) . By the way there are groups in the west have the same ideology Amish Ohaio.

 

Their request to free the prisoners didn't surprise me, as it did to you. That's exactly what I proposed before. BUT, what if they just been jailed using the same non-fair non-humanitarian stupid methods, they been killed with (the way the video shows ) and no one cares about their rights?! not only this but they are afraid to discuss or critisiz the way they been killed with?! to be a confident and fair judge you should be able to give rights for both sides, and to punish both mistaken sides, not only one of them.

 

any group of people, what ever their religion, will subject to a great deal of oppression and stupidity (see the video), will reply back violently.

 

All what I proposed is sending a respectful delegation from the UN and the Islamic world to expose the whole picture, show the real roots of the conflict, what if they were being oppressed? what if they ask for the minimum of their rights in their country? while you keep picking and propagating what your media propagate to shed much blood as fast as they can.

 

I'm tired of keep repeating this, OK it seems like you are right, I have now a better proposal that the Nigerian police have to kill the rest of the prisoners, just the same way they killed the innocent Muslems in the video, and so there will be no requests, girls released and then every one will be happy.

 

BUT, I have one request to show how fair, human right defenders are those people. These 100s of intelligence agents, 1000s of special forces, Satellites, UPVs ........etc. that rushed to save the girls in Nigeria, they have to go just little pit east to show integrity with those Muslems being killed, kidnapped, slaughtered, raped, genocided in Central Africa. other than this, the West is just proving that it deal with the Muslem cases using a double stander.

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Yes I agree we should hear their side but the point is no government wants to openly admit they are willing to talk to the ''terrorists'', even though they often do behind closed doors. 

 

It is fine if they are against western lifestyle but you can't compare them to amish or mormons. They aren't exactly kidnapping children in America. Many muslims live in the west and oppose western education so they home school their children, and so do many non muslims. People have found different ways to oppose the standard education system for many different reasons without using violence. 

 

The real problem is that governments tend to ignore the root causes of such groups. They are going to do the same here. When you are ignored in the political landscape you look for attention using desperate measures which is what they have done. Their tactic works, they got the attention they wanted, but I definitely don't agree with what they are doing as it only further puts Islam in the negative light as they dress their political goals up with Islam.

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away of any religion or ideology, any group of people being subjected to a great deal of oppression and stupidity, will reply back violently. this is Newton's third law about action and reaction, this thermodynamic law, keep heating people up will cause boiling. if the USA police killed the Amish in the streets (like the Nigerian army in the video) who knows how they would have been react.
By the way, I remembered, that happened before in the states in 1993, the the Waco Massacre, when this group felt, only felt that the government may deal unfairly to them, they began to stake guns to defend their identity. while the army killed all of them, "mistakenly".

Although the great stroke in human rights the west reached, we still see groups like ITA Spain. let's just imagine if the Spanish authorities killed the innocent people of Basque in the streets, suspecting them by sympathy with ETA, like the Nigerian army did, what could be the ETA reaction?!

I believe the Nigerian army + all of that western technical + logistic + operational support try to corner this group, cut any return way and kill as much as they can from them which mostly will lead to provoke any mad man among them to kill some girls and here it is. a new era oppression and one level down for the Muslims in the area will began, which may reach genocide like central Africa. also, that may cause a permanent existence of the western forces in such area which is rich in different natural resources.

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