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Crucifiction Of Jesus

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Sounds like a threat to me God's Servant . Usually the ending of a losing argument . Perhaps YOU will suggest to the moderator ,no?

 

 

WHAT is the title of this Thread ?   To say Jesus did not die on the Cross IS IN ITSELF Preaching .

 

 I don't know, nor do I care whether you're a muslim , christian or Hindu . That  goes for both of you .

 

 One thing I do know , Jesus was crucified and did in fact DIE on the cross . There is historical evidence from a number of non-Christian  sources and authors whom I've listed . In any and all scholarship of these studies 95 % scholars agree the historical record is correct . As to the Resurrection , that is a matter of Faith . As to the PURPOSE of  Jesus death on the Cross , that has been made quite clear by the Christian Books AND  by the very words of Jesus himself .

 

 Kometa 2 obviously is recounting the reasons for his own beliefs, regarding Christianity .And I imagine he thinks me and/or you a muslim , and that could be due to a language barrier as it seems English is not Kometa2's native tongue .

 

 I am telling you what the Christian verses say , you can accept or reject that , it matters only to you , and as far as baptism being required for salvation, you are wrong , and hopefully  you will not teach your error to anyone else .

 But at the end of the day , you are responsible ONLY for your own soul , as it is the individual responsibility for everyman to seek out and discern the truth .

 Baptism was a requirement for A JEW BEFORE JESUS WAS CRUICIFIED , Baptism was a JEWISH INSTITUTION derived from the MICVAH a ritual immersion in living water . After Jesus death , for a JEW to be saved , he had to first accept Jesus as KING and Messiah THEN be baptized .  Jews today are not lost , when they recognize Jesus as their King and Messiah , then they will be saved  , all Gentiles need not be Baptized , evidenced by Paul who took the Gospel to the nations , and it is reiterated several times in the books of Acts ,Romans ,Ephesians , 1 Peter  and even Mark . You fail to recognize this because of the religious dogma you have been exposed to , and chose not to investigate further .If you did you would conclude that every word Jesus spoke was directed to the Jews first , then extended to the Gentiles .

 Since you mention the Canon , that is another indication of the fact you are/were a Catholic . And just who decided what books were to be kept and which were to be discarded at the Council Of Nicea ?  Yes , "The Bishops deemed what was inspired " ...indeed they did .

 

 

"The Church " has had nothing to do with my conclusions . They are the result of earnest research , not any religious institution . The Bible has been around in the version of my Language - English since the [printing press ]was invented , and is the most published book in the world . This gave ALL men the ability to read for themselves , which btw -the Church was against . Men were to be told what was contained by "the church " and what was meant by it's words . So the responsibility now rests on the shoulders of men to hear the Everlasting Gospel . Obviously the religious interpret what they will and the result is 2000 sects of Christianity .The situation is no different with Jews and Muslims .  You can memorize the Bible and still miss the point . And obviously you can read it and still miss the point .  You are free to do so .

 Today it is much easier to determine the root meaning of the Aramaic and Hebrew words spoken by Jesus and the authors  , their colloquial, vernacular and contextual meanings in the times they were spoken , as well as the eventual transliteration to Greek and thence to English .  .And this by computer programs . What took me countless hours today takes minutes .  You ought to try it .

  The Q'uran and the Jewish books are much easier since they exist in their original form and Language .The Q'uran being much more recent , and the Jewish books maintained by an entire unbroken order of Scribes .  One only need access to translation of one language each in both cases .  

 You list yourself as "Christian " , you should therefore separate fact from opinion as to what the Christian verses say , and what is historical , or what is traditional .

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PropellerAds

It’s not a threat but merely reminding her of the forum rules
here.

 

I suggest you and kometa2 both read carefully before you
post. Kometa is a woman, you address her as a man.

 

Again I repeat all you did was give me bible verses. So
what? It’s how you interpret them that counts. Prove to me your interpretation
is protected from error by the Holy Spirit and I will leave my Church
instantly. 

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LOL....I am not concerned at all whether you leave your Church , Synagogue or Masjid. My concern is not what you believe , and what I believe is also irrelevant . Just as with the crucifixion and death of Jesus is historically authenticated  by the historical record and secular and non secular sources ,  so too is the tradition of baptism atleast as it applies to gentiles , according to translation ,NOT required for salvation .

And you say " all you give me is bible verses "  , LOL....that is what you requested , was it not ?  The Council of Nicaea [and not without political motive ] established what books would be considered "inspired " and thus included in the New  Testament . The Roman Catholics add books not found in the Standard King James Version . And there are also the Books of the Apocrypha . How were Gentiles saved without baptism ? , and what does the Term "baptized by the Holy Spirit " mean  ?

 

  You are free to interpret whatever you wish , I concern myself with what the actual words translated mean, who they were spoken to , and in their context .

 

My apologies to Kometa 2 , so she is . And as far as forum Rules , this whole thread should  be in the  Refuting section, where the the thread  - Why does Allah want us to believe Jesus was Crucified has been placed .

 

Besides that my point is not to prosyletize nor refute any religious faith , but to refute the notion that Jesus was not crucified and died , and other alleged and perceived fallacies that are raised up as fact . That notion is proven false , as well as the requirement of Baptism for salvation . If you actually read the verses I referenced , and even gone a step further and read ALL the references in the new Testament , you would clearly see that it is not required .  The message was " to the Jews first ,and then the nations " and the message is a bit different for each. , and as Paul was charged with bringing the everlasting gospel to the nations . Circumcision , the Law , and baptism were superceded by a profession of faith in  Christ and a repentance of sins .
 

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Sounds like a threat to me God's Servant . Usually the ending of a losing argument . Perhaps YOU will suggest to the moderator ,no?

 

 

WHAT is the title of this Thread ?   To say Jesus did not die on the Cross IS IN ITSELF Preaching .

 

 I don't know, nor do I care whether you're a muslim , christian or Hindu . That  goes for both of you .

 

 One thing I do know , Jesus was crucified and did in fact DIE on the cross . There is historical evidence from a number of non-Christian  sources and authors whom I've listed . In any and all scholarship of these studies 95 % scholars agree the historical record is correct . As to the Resurrection , that is a matter of Faith . As to the PURPOSE of  Jesus death on the Cross , that has been made quite clear by the Christian Books AND  by the very words of Jesus himself .

 

 Kometa 2 obviously is recounting the reasons for his own beliefs, regarding Christianity .And I imagine he thinks me and/or you a muslim , and that could be due to a language barrier as it seems English is not Kometa2's native tongue .

 

 I am telling you what the Christian verses say , you can accept or reject that , it matters only to you , and as far as baptism being required for salvation, you are wrong , and hopefully  you will not teach your error to anyone else .

 But at the end of the day , you are responsible ONLY for your own soul , as it is the individual responsibility for everyman to seek out and discern the truth .

 Baptism was a requirement for A JEW BEFORE JESUS WAS CRUICIFIED , Baptism was a JEWISH INSTITUTION derived from the MICVAH a ritual immersion in living water . After Jesus death , for a JEW to be saved , he had to first accept Jesus as KING and Messiah THEN be baptized .  Jews today are not lost , when they recognize Jesus as their King and Messiah , then they will be saved  , all Gentiles need not be Baptized , evidenced by Paul who took the Gospel to the nations , and it is reiterated several times in the books of Acts ,Romans ,Ephesians , 1 Peter  and even Mark . You fail to recognize this because of the religious dogma you have been exposed to , and chose not to investigate further .If you did you would conclude that every word Jesus spoke was directed to the Jews first , then extended to the Gentiles .

 Since you mention the Canon , that is another indication of the fact you are/were a Catholic . And just who decided what books were to be kept and which were to be discarded at the Council Of Nicea ?  Yes , "The Bishops deemed what was inspired " ...indeed they did .

 

 

"The Church " has had nothing to do with my conclusions . They are the result of earnest research , not any religious institution . The Bible has been around in the version of my Language - English since the [printing press ]was invented , and is the most published book in the world . This gave ALL men the ability to read for themselves , which btw -the Church was against . Men were to be told what was contained by "the church " and what was meant by it's words . So the responsibility now rests on the shoulders of men to hear the Everlasting Gospel . Obviously the religious interpret what they will and the result is 2000 sects of Christianity .The situation is no different with Jews and Muslims .  You can memorize the Bible and still miss the point . And obviously you can read it and still miss the point .  You are free to do so .

 Today it is much easier to determine the root meaning of the Aramaic and Hebrew words spoken by Jesus and the authors  , their colloquial, vernacular and contextual meanings in the times they were spoken , as well as the eventual transliteration to Greek and thence to English .  .And this by computer programs . What took me countless hours today takes minutes .  You ought to try it .

  The Q'uran and the Jewish books are much easier since they exist in their original form and Language .The Q'uran being much more recent , and the Jewish books maintained by an entire unbroken order of Scribes .  One only need access to translation of one language each in both cases .  

 You list yourself as "Christian " , you should therefore separate fact from opinion as to what the Christian verses say , and what is historical , or what is traditional .

 

Aligarr,

I am showing you FACTS. it is not my faul that in Islam Allah never proved he exists, he makes no miracles, does not heal, and has you for his slaves but in christianity we are saved by the grace and love and power of God who made us His children and who has personal relationship with us. this is because our God IS love.

Allah never introduced himself as LOVE. BU he commands to beat wives and calls it mercy (4:34) and to kill infidels and calls it mercy (9:5) so as you can see he has a very special approach towards what is called love. none of us would ever see is as love but he does. maybe tha is why he neevr saved you and calls you slaves. his attitude toward people is reflected by the way he treats people and what he promises to you. he promised only hell for ever soul and still call himself merciful though it is hard to see mercy in all this, dont you think?

 

i have asked so many muslims to tell me what are the benefits of Islam and nobody (and i asked quite many!) could answer this question.

then, if you hav eno benefits in Islam and Allah has no personal contact with muslims (making it very uestionable whether he really exists...) and he does not intervene in the lives of muslims then why are you a muslim? is i only because of fear to be killed for apostasy or is it something else? can you honestly answer?

 

Jesus is sinless and He is THE TRUH so He is the guarabtee of all He said and of all He promised us and even more we already see Him at work in our lives by miracles He does, by what He TELLS us personally. if we dont hav epersonal relationship with God then none of us would be a christian! why? we hav eanswer in Romans 8:14: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God."

 

that explains why God treats us the way He does,why He died on our place, why He heals us and manifests Himself in our lives. He created us for Himself. To know Him and be with Him.

 

every book can be translated. every one. arabic langauge is just a language, as any other. and ver many muslims read koran only in translation, so do they have a wrong and misleading book?

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LOL....I am not concerned at all whether you leave your Church , Synagogue or Masjid. My concern is not what you believe , and what I believe is also irrelevant . Just as with the crucifixion and death of Jesus is historically authenticated  by the historical record and secular and non secular sources ,  so too is the tradition of baptism atleast as it applies to gentiles , according to translation ,NOT required for salvation .

And you say " all you give me is bible verses "  , LOL....that is what you requested , was it not ?  The Council of Nicaea [and not without political motive ] established what books would be considered "inspired " and thus included in the New  Testament . The Roman Catholics add books not found in the Standard King James Version . And there are also the Books of the Apocrypha . How were Gentiles saved without baptism ? , and what does the Term "baptized by the Holy Spirit " mean  ?

 

  You are free to interpret whatever you wish , I concern myself with what the actual words translated mean, who they were spoken to , and in their context .

 

My apologies to Kometa 2 , so she is . And as far as forum Rules , this whole thread should  be in the  Refuting section, where the the thread  - Why does Allah want us to believe Jesus was Crucified has been placed .

 

Besides that my point is not to prosyletize nor refute any religious faith , but to refute the notion that Jesus was not crucified and died , and other alleged and perceived fallacies that are raised up as fact . That notion is proven false , as well as the requirement of Baptism for salvation . If you actually read the verses I referenced , and even gone a step further and read ALL the references in the new Testament , you would clearly see that it is not required .  The message was " to the Jews first ,and then the nations " and the message is a bit different for each. , and as Paul was charged with bringing the everlasting gospel to the nations . Circumcision , the Law , and baptism were superceded by a profession of faith in  Christ and a repentance of sins .

 

Aligarr,

tell me why would Allah want you to believe wha is NOT true? If Islam so respects Jesus then why would it at the same time deny what Jesus is and what He said and what history archeology and science prove and what actually happendd long before Allah came into the scene and Muhammad came to preach his message?

Allah calls himself the greatest of all deceivers in koran. 5 (FIVE) times. But God of the Bible calls Himself HOLY. Do you think that choosing a lie in order to force the "truth" you want is jusifiable, is it ok? is it ok o use evil in order to promoe "good"? Is it hen really a good thing?

Allah calls himself the most proud of all. In the Bible we read that God is LOWLY in heartm he is a Servan, He is meek and humble. And ha He hates PRIDE. and the Bible says satan is the most proud of all.

the way  God introduces himself the way he is and treats people.

Allah says he is almighty and yet never manifested this migght to the world or for the benefit of people. it is only a notion, an idea, a characterisitc never proven nor revaeld by Allah. how then an you be sure Allah is true and real and better than all other gods worshipped in so many cults religins and sets?

The Bible God always proved His word and power. In fact He said He proves Himself by miracles and by revealing to us the end of a matter before it comes. God authenticates His Word by revealing to us the end from the beginning.Only Bible God showed us prophecies in which He predicted the future which later on came to pass. 2/3 of the Bible prophecies have already been fulfilled. koran/Allah never prophecied one thing that would come true. think about it.

 

Islam  is only behavior modification, social order, rules, regulations, good works to deserve salvation or religious duties but christianity is all about personal relationship with God who comes to dwell in our hearts and change us from within and empower us to live a holy, pure life out of unity and fellowship with God Himself.

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Interesting thread, I just wonder if everyone is reading each other's posts. :) it seems to me Aligarr, Gods servant and Kometa2 would identify with Christianity and not Islam. I count myself also as a Christian. That said discussions on the various paths we each choose I would say arrive at the same destination.

 

All christians believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one gets to God the Father except through Him. Muslims are astray from this truth because their prophet didn't give them this message. We can tell them this truth but you cannot make them see it unless they are moved by the Spirit themselves enough to want it. God is Love and Jesus saves... That's the core message of the Bible .. It's simples. :)

 

Peace and blessings brothers and sister in Christ. :)

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LOL....I wonder too . It is simple indeed , perhaps too simple ........maybe if it were complicated ?

 

Love God with all your being, love your neighbor as yourself - all of the Law in one sentence .

 

No one can - accept Jesus as your Redeemer .

 

That sums up the Christian Faith , as I understand it ,

Edited by Aligarr

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Aligarr,

Allah does not teach you to love your neighbor. it is Jesus who eaches us o love others as we love ourslves and to love even our enemies.

Allah commands to abuse women and calls it mercy (4:34), he allows temporal marriags whcih makes women mere prostitutes, he allows marrying babies which was practiced first by Muhammad and now is a common thing in all Islamic nations which is pedophilia in all western world. Allah commands to kill infidels (9;5) and calls it mercy. Allah calls you slaves and did not save you nor manifests his power, love and has no personal contact with you.

Jesus only saved the world. Jesus is the truth. Allah said 5 times he is he deceiver. Jesus is holy. Jesus is Love! Jesus is sinless. Jesus is lowly meek and humble. Allah says he is the most proud of all.

this is a huge huge huge difference between Jesus and Allah and that difference shapes the mentality of christianity and of Islam. because you cannot be better than the one you follow. If Muhammad married a child, beat his wives and Allah calls abuse of women and murder of infidels mercy then it is the culture of Islam and such are muslims becaus they think it is ok to live such a way. but Jesus made men and women equa, He saved them, He made people children of God, He has personal relationship with people, He manifests power, heals the sick, delivers people, raises them from the dead and on and on. God is love and He proves it time after time after time.

 

Jesus fulfiled the law and now we are not under the jewish law any more bu under the law of LOVE. which teaches us to do to others what we want done to us. which results in the lifestyle we have,

it is the life of purity of goodness of love towards others. of sacrificial love of ministry of serving. such was Jesus. such is the nature of God. that excludes abuse of women, tha excludes pedophilia, murder, polygamy, and so much more....

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kometa 2  , I know what the Christian faith  teaches . I also am familiar with how religion has crept in to corrupt the Everlasting Gospel, which I'm sure you know that gospel means "good news " .

  I will not argue for or against anyone's chosen beliefs . All men are equal when it comes to knowing the things of God. All men have free will and all men will choose .

The things that I have mentioned are historical , they have been verified ,as to the issue of Jesus, his crucifixion and death . These are not matters of opinion , they are matters of fact .

You are correct in saying that Christians are not subject to the Law , that much has been preached by Paul . Indeed it is the :Law of love . Jesus said

 

"any man who says he loves God , and loves not his brother , that man is a liar "

 

" how can a man say he loves God whom he has not seen ,and not his brother whom he has seen " .

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Aligarr,

I would be a evil if i did not ell you the truth. Because only the truth sets people free. Jesus is THE Truth. so how can you know the truth if you dont hear it?

so far i have only showed you what your own books say and because you have no arguments you dismiss the discussion I am sure it is hard to defend tha Allah called himself a deceiver and he is the most proud of all, and that he commands to bea wives 4;34 calling it mercy or kill infidels 9;5 calling it mercy. also, he promised only hell and has you for slaves. and all those "benefis" of Islam are not very encouraging in comparison to what God provided for us: salvation, sonship, personal relationship with Him, promised heaven, healings, delivery from addictions, love and on and on....especially that God of the Bible is HOLY and proved His love and power and Allah never even proved he exists nor manifested power at any time. But all those thoughts are to help you see facts. if you say God is merciful and then have completely noothing to prove it with then you definitely can feel unhappy when you show the rue love, manifested proven by God who calls Himslef LOVE! love is either practical and sacrificial or it is only a word on paper.

Dismissing the conversation because of the lack of arguments will never change FACTS. the FACTS that i am showing you are to help you THINK...and draw conclusion and seek he truth. Jesus said I am THE TRUTH which means all else is a lie....

 

it is because i love you muslim people that i am here on the discussion forum.... i have muslim peolpe on my heart for many years..

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komta 2   , I am not Muslim . I believe in One God . I do not dismiss any argument , because I do not question anyone's belief.

 Since what I know to be historical fact has been construed by men to be fiction , I felt the need to take exception to fallacy which is spoken and may in fact be taught .

 Just as some Muslims believe Jesus was not crucified and died , that is false , and as God's Servant stated one must be water baptized for salvation , that too is false .

 Both are  the result of the opinions and agendas of men . The chrsitan books are clear -baptism by water is not necessary for a man to be saved , that can only be accomplished through faith in Jesus and that he dies for the sins of all mankind .History and the historical record are clear Jesus was crucified and died .To teach that he did not is a false teaching ,for whatever reason .

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you say you are not a muslim, and yet you defended Islam but when i showed you verses of your own books of koran and hadiths where we clearly read that Allah commands to kill infidels and calls it mercy (9;5) and commands to abuse women and calls it mercy (4;34) and that he called himself a deceiver (he said it!!) and allowed pedophilia, and many other atrocities and injustice then you went silent because you could not defend all that evil.

Islam does not believe in one God.

God speaks very clearly in His word bu yes, some people have their own agendas sothey promote one idea and forget the rest verses which show a different light to the matter. all because of weakness of people and their selfishness.

but the very fact that Jesus died on the cross is a hisorical fact and when Islam denies the obvious truth - those who follow it, should consider if Islam is rue if it denies the obvious fact...afterall, if Allah/Muhammad/Islam lies/denies on this one precept then how can you be sure oher things (inconvenient to them) will be treated with the same dishonesty?

bu God is HOLY and He hates lies. lying is agains His nature.

in the Bible it i satan who is called the faher of lies...

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kometa2 , you have me confused with another poster or you are reading the posts out of sequence . I do not defend Islam nor am I a Muslim.

 There is no verse in the Q'uran that I defended , because I did not reference any verse of the Q'uran.

 

I took exception to the erroneous belief by the  author of this thread and the poster  Daris and some people that Jesus was not crucified and that he did not die on the cross The historical record , secular non-Christian sources ,and the Jewish writers as well as the Christian books ,all attest to the fact that Jesus was crucified died and resurrected .

 

I also questioned the poster God's Servant's incorrect belief that a man must be  baptized by water to be saved ......this is not supported by the Christian verses .

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You just can’t let it go Pope Aligarr. You keep bringing my
name up like I intimidate you or something. Listen I let it go, why

can’t you??

Edited by Gods Servant

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so , dear muslims, if crucifixion is a sure thing proven and confirmed by history and it is  a FACT then why does Islam deny it??

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Well God's Servant , you made the statement , now you deal with the consequence , and that is taking ownership of the statement .  You have every right to disagree without getting snide about it . I am not a Pope , Popes have no meaning to me . You are not intimidating me , where do you get that notion ?   We have read the same Bible and I believe your statement to be in error . Just as I believe that  denial of the crucifixion and death of Jesus is error .

 

 

 

 

 Besides kometa2 seems to have been confused on who is saying what and to who , so I felt it necessary to make my position clear on BOTH issues . She was under the impression that I was Muslim .

Edited by Aligarr

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yes, Aligarr, i was under the impression you were a muslim since I associated you with defending Islam on some point. But if you say you are not a muslm, then ok.

i dont really know why muslims are not so talkative on a muslim discussion forum...but on the other hand i know why thet dont speak...i would be speechless too, escape is the only way for them...

but i came here to talk to muslims whom i want to provoke into critical thinking and seeking the truth

:)

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kometa2 , people will believe what they want to believe , critical thinking is not involved when it comes to embracing religious doctrine, tradition and dogma .

 This is why I do not argue with a religious view , unless it involves expounding historical error , and/or erroneous interpretation and translation of what is written in the holy books .

 

Every man is given a measure of faith , and what that man does with it over the course of a lifetime is that man's sole responsibility and free will choice .

 

When it comes to salvation , if a man is an inch away from the truth , he may as well be a million miles away from it .

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so , dear muslims, if crucifixion is a sure thing proven and confirmed by history and it is a FACT then why does Islam deny it??

Well, I'm not a Muslim either, so I can't say why they think as they do. They say they love and respect Jesus, yet ignore everything he said about himself. Scary thing is the important thing he said that to believe He is the only way, He is the Truth and He is the life and the only way to God the father was through Him. Belief in His atoning work on the cross. The very thing that redeems us before God is what they deny.

 

You can talk till your blue in the face but it will make no difference, they have to want the truth themselves. My husband used to be a muslim, and I never sought to persuade him away from his faith but he had long doubted Islam as truth before he met me. He found Jesus himself because he was looking for him, he is now a Christian but this has come at no small cost to himself personally as some of his family now refuse to speak to him. Which is sad as we are now starting our own family which they have chosen not to be part off. Still who knows what the future may bring. :)

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yes, Aligarr, i was under the impression you were a muslim since I associated you with defending Islam on some point. But if you say you are not a muslm, then ok.

i dont really know why muslims are not so talkative on a muslim discussion forum...but on the other hand i know why thet dont speak...i would be speechless too, escape is the only way for them...

but i came here to talk to muslims whom i want to provoke into critical thinking and seeking the truth

:)

It could be because they don't wish to upset the boat, that is to say, they can't think they may be wrong. It's like the old Bible corruption stuff muslims go on about. There is zero proof of these claims and when asked to show proof it's like the bits of the Bible that agrees with the Quran is ok and everything else is corrupted. Then we have silly scenarios like claiming one part of a book (Deuteronomy) for example says Mohammed is a prophet but a few verses later in the same book a verse proves that Mohammed could not have been a prophet. Also book of Isaiah used to prophecy Mohammed when the Quran doesn't even mention Isaiah as a prophet!!! Honestly there is no sense to using the Bible to validate mohammed as a prophet because he is not mentioned anywhere.

 

So as to provoking critical thinking then I wish you good luck with that, there has to be a degree of open mindness, you'll not find much of that I don't think. Besides it seems very quiet on this forum, like everyone is on a permanent holiday :)

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Tunisia , Jesus asked Peter " who do men say that I am " Peter answered , "you are the Christ " ....Jesus replied "man has not revealed that to you , but the Father by his holy spirit " .

   Men hear the calling of the  Holy Spirit  , to reject that is the unpardonable sin , because a man who rejects ,has in effect rejected Jesus as his Lord and Savior , so how can that man be saved ?   He can not .

 

The Good News , or Everlasting Gospel is , that once a man is saved he can never be lost .Religions find ways to bury that fact , so they can exercise control . But they are not in control , not at all .

Edited by Aligarr
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Exactly so Aligarr, without the spirit people many people go through the motions of following a religion, but that is not the way to salvation. Jesus said we are not saved by the law.. So adhering to religious rules don't count for much. That may not sound as I wish it to say. Not that rules or laws in themselves are useless or not relevant. Just that we cannot be redeemed before God just by following rules.

 

I see Islam as a religion is governed by "rules" but when I look at some of them I struggle to see why such a thing would be important to a holy God or in any way enrich our spirit. They are however a good measure of control over its believers. I don't see God as contained in any one religion but is accessible to all who embrace His Spirit. Lol, I know what I mean but maybe I'm not explaining it very well. :)

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kometa2 , people will believe what they want to believe , critical thinking is not involved when it comes to embracing religious doctrine, tradition and dogma .

 This is why I do not argue with a religious view , unless it involves expounding historical error , and/or erroneous interpretation and translation of what is written in the holy books .

 

Every man is given a measure of faith , and what that man does with it over the course of a lifetime is that man's sole responsibility and free will choice .

 

When it comes to salvation , if a man is an inch away from the truth , he may as well be a million miles away from it .

Aligarr,

I was a catholic but when i met people who really met God and who were saved and told me about Jesus and what He did for us on the cross i left everything for Jesus. I wanted God more than i wanted dead religion or tradition. Many people want reality. That is why even Al-Jazeerah says that 6 million muslims leave Islam in africa alone EACH YEAR! they want reality. not a paper god who has no power and who is as good as dead. so when they see evangelists who heal them in the name of Jesus and deliver them of all kinds of demonic oppressions and make miracles in front of their eyes, they leave Islam despite the threats of death for apostasy.

Jesus sent us to preach the gospel and He sees sense in doing it and i believe that only when peolpe hav emore than 1 option they can really DECIDE for themsleves...if they really seek God...

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Exactly so Aligarr, without the spirit people many people go through the motions of following a religion, but that is not the way to salvation. Jesus said we are not saved by the law.. So adhering to religious rules don't count for much. That may not sound as I wish it to say. Not that rules or laws in themselves are useless or not relevant. Just that we cannot be redeemed before God just by following rules.

 

I see Islam as a religion is governed by "rules" but when I look at some of them I struggle to see why such a thing would be important to a holy God or in any way enrich our spirit. They are however a good measure of control over its believers. I don't see God as contained in any one religion but is accessible to all who embrace His Spirit. Lol, I know what I mean but maybe I'm not explaining it very well. :)

yes, Tunisia, Islam is only a ceremonial religion.

The greatest difference between christianity and Islam is that christianity is reality of God and personal relationship with Him, God is holy, He is love and He is our Father. Christianity is based on life, power and words of sinless pure Jesus. Islam is just a set of rules, regulations, ceremonies. Allah never proved he exists.

in Islam there is many many immoral rules...which muslims justify and defend or whitewash it...women abuse (4:34) is what Allah commanded (and now it is a rule) in his book (4:34) an dnow Islam is known as women abuse. another rule known by the world is getting peolpe to Islam by all kinds of means or punishing them if they refuse about which we can read in for example in 9;5 in the koran where Allah commands to kill infidels. now, many Islamic terroristic groups live by that RULE of Islam...and Allah even calls the abuse of women (4;34) and the murder of infidels (9;5) MERCY....

Muhammad married a child and now it is a RULE in Islam and it is ok to marry babies thought the whole civil western world calls it pedophilia and if those muslims who find freedom to duch a thing in Islamic nation they would go to jail in the west for the same thing....

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