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No , my brain is not rotten . It's just functioning normally .  You do know you have used denigrating terms ....don't you ? "  Kuffar " , and "Johnny English" , I sense some biases have spilt from your mouth , unintentionally of course ..lol.

 

Well needless to say , I am in disagreement with any religious doxologies you recite , as I believe all men are born with a conscience , and as a result know right from wrong ,without referring to a holy book and threats of punishment . And that all men are totally equal . regardless of religious stripe and therefore equally responsible for their actions regardless of what they are taught in their "books " .

 

I also believe in God , and His Mercy , which in no way resembles the mercy of men . As for those who claim there is no God ? I recall a saying in one of the books , A man is a fool to believe there is no  God , and Twice a fool for saying it .  Belief is simple not complicated , there is nothing to remember and recite . Men do not need a map to being a righteous human being , they already know . The Heart speaks first , whether or not the mind and body follow is what makes all the difference .

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PropellerAds

So you follow your own desires?

What if we all did that?

Wouldn't there be chaos and confusion on land sea and air?

Lemme tell you mate, there's no such thing as absolute freedom, otherwise there'd be no scientists spending years studying and researching laws, and no puppet dictators making "laws" and trying to control you with armed officers.

It's also amazing that when you travel through the earth, you find the most corrupt establishments to be the "legal" ones and the medical ones - when people are ruled by their vain desires or mob (majority) rule based on desires (democracy), which is ultimately controlled and manipulated by the richest financiers and most power hungry puppets.

Greed and Profit, "i" comes first.

 

Don't get me wrong, "i" also comes first in Islam when balancing now and eternity.

But the "i" is only saved when the Master, Giver and Taker who is the Creator of all that exists comes first.

usually, the profit of "i" is increased when helping "you" for the sake of God.

Even if it means self sacrifice.

If i try to guide myself and forget you, and then you steal from me or harm me, i have to be patient or retaliate, and the goodwill and produce of human labour which are gifts from God are decreased.

Then i and you lose out.

We harm not God in the least.

 

Laws always exist, if i look to me while making them, you may lose, and vice versa ditto.

If we leave aside self interest and use the instruction manuals that the Originator has given us, we both get along fine.

If we judge by the law of the jungle that strength and power dictates, then know that God is the King of the Jungle and the town, and that His strength and power are awesome above all else.

 

A piece of advice - don't play smoking mirror chess with God. Pharaoh challenged, God it seems accepted and sent Moses as His representative, Pharaoh obviously lost.

Many more have tried smoke and mirrors in the past and God played them with their own made up laws. When they lost - they repented or He destroyed them or gave grace for an appointed term.

 

A similar fate awaits the deniers who refuse to bow to God - and there is none comparable unto Him.

 

 

Kufr means "to cover" "to hide" and in accepted context, it is universally used to mean "to cover/hide the truth of God's signs" ,

Sumission to the Laws of God is Islam, and Al Islam is (haqq) truth, kufr is (baatil) false, Al Islam is (nur) light, and kufr is (dhulumaath) darkness/oppression/injustice - and God doesn't tolerate injustice if there's no repentance.

 

I sincerely ask you to ponder deeply and ask no wage from you, my reward is from God, read the texts, check how duplicitous man made laws are and you'll know by your own God given conscience that God has revealed the truth and the best path - and you shall not will except as God wills, The Master of all that exists.

Edited by abz2000

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How do you interpret what I said to    " I follow my own desires " ????  BTW - THERE IS ALREADY , chaos and confusion on land ,sea ,and air [ in case you hadn't noticed ] . And please abz200o , I know well the meaning of the term kuffar , it is a slur , as is English Johnny .

 

I really don't think those two rules I quoted and spoke to you a few posts back , have sunk in and  thus have eluded your understanding .  If legal systems and/or religious systems are corrupt , it is soley due to the choices men have made to cause them to be corrupt . Many laws are made to suit the status-quo of those who make the laws . Indeed there are many laws which in reality are unjust .Yet we call them laws , and their enforcement -justice . Secular laws are usually corrupted by avarice , whereas religious laws are corrupted by self-righteousness . Much of which is ill founded .

  However in order for a civilized society to9 exist , there must be a rule of law ,imperfect as they may be . If not people run amuck and chaos ensues . And that is exactly what is happening across the Middle East . Religious factions supercede law , so only those of a faction will observe the laws while others ignore them / they cite their books to justify their actions , AND RE -MAKE LAW as they go .

 

The bone of contention betwixt the world's religions is , who's God revealed what and to whom . And since there is only One God , and God is incorruptible ,there can only be one instruction - yet there are people corrupting his instructions , that means the alleged instructions are corrupted . God is not a trickster who seeks to fool His Creation . Memorization and recitations of words put down by men do not clarify nor add to His Instruction . They have already been written on their hearts That is why there is no excuse for confusion . This is what sets apart the Human soul from that of all the other creatures of creation . You can be of any religion or no religion , if you follow the TWO Rules , also know as the Golden Rule , then everything else is commentary . No man is born into a religion , that is simply a tradition .When the child reaches the age of reason ,he will choose to do good or evil , and he will know when he does evil , without hearing or reading from a book .

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Maybe you haven't read the Quran or the previous scriptures or even the false nationalist (racist) "laws" that are not laws.

The term kuffar has been explained, it is indeed a term that has been used since time imemorial in one form or another, it has also existed in a variation that is known as "heathen".

It makes a distinction based on values and not race, racism uses the term "foreigners" and the two are in no way equal or opposite.

 

I dunno if tou knew that "johnny english" is a british movie starring rowan atkinson who plays the role of clueless secret agent who somehow gets through all the mayhem via "random coincidences".

 

The response to the rest is already elaborated in previous posts, the laws are described as hanging on them, not invalidated by them.

Jihad fi sabeel Allah and concern for others are central tenets of Islam.

And Jihad fi sabeel Allah requires striving with hand, tongue, heart and mind, property and lives when and where the time and place requires with knowledge and wisdom.

the more knowledge one gains, the more one can discern.

But we don't just make it up as we go along or invent falsehoods with the hope of undoing or covering the truth.

Guidelines are to be scrutinized and followed in the most just and sincere manner.

 

 

If there were no laws, there would be no court system, and in a court system people have to judge by the law of the land, my job is to be truthful and clarify to you that the law of the land must be subject to the Creator and Ruler of the land, water and sky - which is God.

 

Please try to understand what God's messengers have presented to you in sincerety and truth before being foolish enough to dismiss it as magic derived from of old and/or the word of a mortal.

The burden is heavy.

The consequences are detailed.

Let us repent.

 

And let the people of the Gospel judge according to what Allah has revealed therein, and whoso judges not by what Allah has revealed, these it is who are the transgressors.

Quran 5:47

 

it seems to me that your intention is not to learn and be guided but to dispute incessantly.

If that is the case then i have no desire to continue bickering for no result other than ill will.

Grow up.

 

I'm not gonna live on this earth for eternity and don't want to.

so know that i don't seek to control you and leech you, nor do i have any interest in deceiving you for personal gain or self interest. May we all repent to Allah for any shortcomings. My task is to give glad tidings and to warn, and to live in accordance with what God has enjoined to the best of my ability.

Your seducers are steeped in guilt.

And you will surely know the truth of it all soon.

Edited by abz2000

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I am seduced by no one . A man chooses to be seduced , and I have not . Yes indeed we will all SOON see the truth . In that we are in agreement . It is much later than many ,many, people think .

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Aligarr,

 

I don't intend to offend, but what purpose brings you here?

 

Is it to bring unity? To learn about Islam from devout Muslims? To understand another culture?

 

I know what my purpose is. What is yours?

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What is the Title of the thread  ?  I am commenting on it ,and replying to posts by others .

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What is the Title of the thread ? I am commenting on it ,and replying to posts by others .

No, I meant at the Islamic Forum.

 

I came here to understand Islam from a Muslim perspective, not from the perspective of the news media.

 

I thought I would ask other non-Muslims because I was curious about their reasons for being here.

 

A one sentence answer will do.

Edited by Gnosis

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Stay curious ,and listen to what I say .

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Stay curious ,and listen to what I say .

 

 

 

I was curious about your response to this quote:

 

 

 

 

it seems to me that your intention is not to learn and be guided but to dispute incessantly.

 

 

 

This is why I asked what purpose you intended to achieve here.

 

I did not come seeking conversion to Islam, but to gain an understanding of the people and the faith. To learn from them.

 

Other people come for other reasons. I just wanted to know what you see as important here.

Edited by Gnosis

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Gnosis -

Well that is what I'm doing here , listening to what people say .  I'm not an evangelist , proselytizer , or religionist . I know what is in all the books of the main religions , I have read them and understand what is being said . I then compare that to what people are saying . I also know from what you have stated thus far what your gnostic beliefs are  . That is what your interpretation is .

 

abz2000 -

I'm not here to be guided , and yes I will dispute anyone who in any way makes excuse for DAESH . I also dispute what I consider , based on my study of 40 years or so , discrepancies between dogma and what people are actually saying and doing .  You can say what you think , but you can not dispute what was written in the religious books . That is IF you have studied the meaning of the words according to their colloquial origins and chronological meanings . I do not engage in  apologetics . Have I criticized your beliefs ?

Edited by Aligarr

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Ah, you are a contrary.

 

You come to a place to find disagreement. A person who loves to argue and dispute.

 

I never said that you criticized my beliefs, only that you seemed to come to a place where your beliefs were in direct opposition, just for the enjoyment of the debate.

 

If you did not come here to be "guided," then I would assume you see yourself as the "guider." The one who will guide others away from their beliefs. A strange position to take in another person's house.

 

I am here to listen and learn, not teach.

 

 

Gnosis -

Well that is what I'm doing here , listening to what people say .  I'm not an evangelist , proselytizer , or religionist . I know what is in all the books of the main religions , I have read them and understand what is being said . I then compare that to what people are saying . I also know from what you have stated thus far what your gnostic beliefs are  . That is what your interpretation is .

 

abz2000 -

I'm not here to be guided , and yes I will dispute anyone who in any way makes excuse for DAESH . I also dispute what I consider , based on my study of 40 years or so , discrepancies between dogma and what people are actually saying and doing .  You can say what you think , but you can not dispute what was written in the religious books . That is IF you have studied the meaning of the words according to their colloquial origins and chronological meanings . I do not engage in  apologetics . Have I criticized your beliefs ?

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I disagree with your conclusion . I will not argue a point simply to be contrary or contentious , I will argue a point which involves a statement that I know to be false . I do not criticize an opinion , but I will criticize or argue an idea .

 

Some non-muslims come  here to proselytize,  others to condemn or agitate . I do none of that . I do  not respond to any proselytizing coming my way either . I have my beliefs , you have yours , I make no attempt to change them or dissuade you from what you believe.

 

abz2000 no doubt resents that I do not harken to his preaching . Well he's free to form an opinion of me , as is anyone else . I am not responsible for anyone's belief but my own , and that responsibility is to myself only . I think I have stated them quite clearly and have not attempted to convince or persuade anyone that  mine are superior , for they are simply mine .

 

I do however resent your allegation that I am here to " guide others away from their beliefs "  . I do no such thing , in fact I have on many occasions encouraged others to hold to their own beliefs , even an atheist who I have had extensive discourse with on these threads . YOU obviously  have not read them . So you rush to judgement . The only beliefs I will stand against and attempt to "guide away from " are those which cause a follower to harm other human beings .

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I disagree with your conclusion . I will not argue a point simply to be contrary or contentious , I will argue a point which involves a statement that I know to be false . I do not criticize an opinion , but I will criticize or argue an idea .

 

Some non-muslims come  here to proselytize,  others to condemn or agitate . I do none of that . I do  not respond to any proselytizing coming my way either . I have my beliefs , you have yours , I make no attempt to change them or dissuade you from what you believe.

 

abz2000 no doubt resents that I do not harken to his preaching . Well he's free to form an opinion of me , as is anyone else . I am not responsible for anyone's belief but my own , and that responsibility is to myself only . I think I have stated them quite clearly and have not attempted to convince or persuade anyone that  mine are superior , for they are simply mine .

 

I do however resent your allegation that I am here to " guide others away from their beliefs "  . I do no such thing , in fact I have on many occasions encouraged others to hold to their own beliefs , even an atheist who I have had extensive discourse with on these threads . YOU obviously  have not read them . So you rush to judgement . The only beliefs I will stand against and attempt to "guide away from " are those which cause a follower to harm other human beings .

Still contrary.

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Yes I imagine everything you do not agree with IS .

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Yes I imagine everything you do not agree with IS .

Peace Be With You!

 

And may you learn the value of tolerance and acceptance.

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May you learn the same,  in the little time I spent teaching you ,in the short time you spent reading my posts . May His peace be upon you .

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May you learn the same, in the little time I spent teaching you ,in the short time you spent reading my posts . May His peace be upon you .

I am here to learn about Islam and Muslims.

Edited by Gnosis

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Indeed gnosis , talk to them and glean their views , one need not subscribe to said views .

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Indeed gnosis , talk to them and glean their views , one need not subscribe to said views .

 

 

Back in the 90's my grandchildren would say, "You're creeping me out, Dude."  

 

That kind of works with that statement.

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Indeed gnosis , talk to them and glean their views , one need not subscribe to said views .

Or (another similitude) is that of a rain-laden cloud from the sky:

In it are zones of darkness, and thunder and lightning:

They press their fingers in their ears to keep out the stunning thunder-clap, the while they are in terror of death.

But Allah is ever round the rejecters of Faith!

 

20. The lightning all but snatches away their sight;

every time it flashes for them, they walk therein, and when the darkness grows on them, they stand still.

And if Allah willed, He could take away their faculty of hearing and seeing; for Allah hath power over all things.

 

They ask thee concerning the Spirit.

Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you,"

86. If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent thee by inspiration:

then wouldst thou find none to plead thy affair in that matter as against Us,

87. -Except for Mercy from thy Lord: for his bounty is to thee (indeed) great.

 

104. The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken:

truly shall We fulfil it.

105. Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

106. Verily in this is a Message for people who would (truly) worship Allah.

107. We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.

108. Say: "What has come to me by inspiration is that your Allah is One Allah. will ye therefore bow to His Will (in Islam)?"

109. But if they turn back, Say: "I have proclaimed the Message to you all alike and in truth; but I know not whether that which ye are promised is near or far.

110. "It is He Who knows what is open in speech and what ye hide (in your hearts).

111. "I know not but that it may be a trial for you, and a grant of (worldly) livelihood (to you) for a time."

112. Say: "O my Lord! judge Thou in truth!" "Our Lord Most Gracious is the One Whose assistance should be sought against that which you assert!"

 

"Whoever of you sees wrong being committed, let him rectify it with his hand, if he is unable, then with his tongue, and if he us unable, then with his heart, and this is the weakest of faith -- or in another version: beyond this there is not a single mustard seed's weight of faith (iman).

 

Ibn Masood was once asked:

 

"Who are the living dead?"

to which he replied:

"He who does not acknowledge the right as such, and does not reject the wrong."

 

He is referring to the person described in the following agreed-upon hadith who consistently failed to reject wrong when tested.

 

The Prophet said:

"Tests are shown to the hearts like a straw mat, straw by straw.

Whichever heart accepts them, and absorbs them, gets a black spot placed on it,

and whichever heart rejects them, gets a white, clear spot on it.

This goes on until the hearts are of two types:

a heart which is white, smooth, and clear like a polished stone which will not be harmed by further trials or tests for as long as the heavens and the earth last,

and another dark and blemished; it is like a hook turned over the wrong way on which nothing can be hung

- it neither acknowledges what is right nor rejects what is wrong, except for that which happens to coincide with its lusts and inclinations with which this heart has become fully absorbed."

 

Abdullah bin Ahmed said:

 

“When death approached my father,

I sat with him and in my hand was a scrap of cloth with which I wanted to tie his beard and he began to drift in and out of consciousness,

then he opened his eyes and said, indicating with his hand: “No, not yet. No, not yet” And he repeated it three times.

After the third repetition ,I said to him: Oh, my father! What is this thing which you have said at this time? You fall into unconsciousness so that we say that you have gone,then you return (to consciousness) and say:

“No, not yet. No, not yet”

 

He said to me : Oh, my son! Do you not know?”

I said: “No”.

He said :” Satan – May Allah’s curse be upon him – stood before me, he lowered himself on his knuckles and said to me:

”Oh, Ahmad! You have eluded me.”

But I replied: “No, not yet, not yet until I die.”

 

And We did not send before you, any of the messengers

except that they ate food and walked in the markets.

And We have made some of you [people] as trial for others

- will you have patience?

And ever is your Lord, Seeing.

 

They said: "Ill omen do we augur from thee and those that are with thee". He said: "Your ill omen is with Allah; yea, ye are a people under trial."

 

Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you?

They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, "When (will come) the Help of Allah?"

Yes! Certainly, the Help of Allah is near!

 

 

 

Aligarr, you're not testing - but a part of Allah's test, it is Allah who is judging you, me, and everybody else.

 

Let us examine ourselves, repent, and submit to the truth before the results are handed out.

 

If baghdadi is simon elliot, know that simon the zealot was also a part of the previous program.

It's not about who, it's what, though the "who" may often confuse us as it did with jacob pbuh in the case of benjamin due to past experience.

Edited by abz2000

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An-Nawwas bin Sam`an (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:

One morning the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) made a mention of Dajjal, and he described him to be insignificant and at the same time described him so significant that we thought he was on the date-palm trees (i.e., nearby).

When we went to him (the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam)) in the evening, he perceived the sign of fear on our faces.

He said, "What is the matter with you?''

We said: "O Messenger of Allah, you talked about Dajjal this morning raising your voice and lowering it until we thought he was hiding in the palm-trees grove:

He said: "Something other than Dajjal make worry about you. If he appears while I am with you, I will defend you against him.

But if he appears after I die, then everyone of you is his own defender.

Allah is the One Who remains after me to guide every Muslim.

Dajjal will be a young man with very curly hair with one eye protruding.

I compare (his appearance) to that of Al-`Uzza bin Qatan.

He who amongst you survives to see him, should recite over him the opening Ayat of Surat Al-Kahf

He will appear on the way between Shaam and Iraq and will spread mischief right and left.

O slaves of Allah! Remain adhered to the truth.''

 

2) From Abdulla Ibn Hawala, the Messanger صلى الله عليه وسلم said: “You will be split up into groups of armies.

An army will be in Al-shaam (greater syria),

an army in Iraq, and an army in Yemen.”

 

Abdullah said: I stood up and said…”choose for me oh Messenger of Allah.”The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

 

“Upon you is Al-shaam; and whoever cannot, let him go to Yemen, and let him drink from its water, for Allah has assured (secured) for me Al-shaam and its people.

 

Rabi’a said: I heard Aba Idris narrating this hadith and he would say:

“who ever Allah has given assurance then there is no fear over him.”

 

Sheikh Al-albani says this hadith is Sahih Jidan (very authentic)

 

3) From Abdullah Ibn Omar (radiya allahu anhuma) he said:

The messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم said,

I saw a pillar of the book was taken from underneath my pillow and I looked and it was an extending light directed toward Al-shaam.

Verily al-iman (the faith), at the time of fitan (turmoil) is in Al-shaam.Sheikh Al-Albani says it is an authentic hadith.

4) From Mu’awiya ibn Qura (raised to the Prophet) (radiya allahu anhu): The Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم said: “If the people of Al-shaam are corrupted then there is no good in you. There will always be a group of my Ummah that will be victorious, and they will not be harmed by those who seek to humiliate them until the hour comes.

 

Sheikh Al-albani declared this as an authentic hadith.

Abu

Sa'id reported that Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) met him (Ibn Sayyad) and so did Abu Bakr and 'Umar on some of the roads of Medina.

 

Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said:

Do you bear testimony to the fact that I am the Messenger of Allaah?

Thereupon he said: Do you bear testimony to the fact that I am the messenger of Allaah?

 

Thereupon Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said:

I affirm my faith in Allaah and in His Angels and in His Books,

 

and what do you see?

He said: I see the throne over water.

Whereupon Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said:

You see the throne of Iblis upon the water, and what else do you see?

He said: I see two truthfuls and a liar or two liars and one truthful.

Thereupon Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) said: Leave him He has been confounded.

In another narration:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin ‘Umar:

‘Umar bin Al-Khattab set out with Allah's Apostle, and a group of his companions to Ibn Saiyad. They found him playing with the boys in the fort or near the Hillocks of Bani Maghala. Ibn Saiyad was nearing his puberty at that time, and he did not notice the arrival of the Prophet till Allah's Apostle stroked him on the back with his hand and said,

"Do you testify that I am Allah's Apostle?"

Ibn Saiyad looked at him and said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of the unlettered ones (illiterates)".

Then Ibn Saiyad said to the Prophet,

"Do you testify that I am Allah’s Apostle?"

The Prophet denied that, saying,

"I believe in Allah and all His Apostles,"

and then said to Ibn Saiyad, "What do you see?"

Ibn Saiyad said, "True people and liars visit me."

The Prophet said, "You have been confused as to this matter."

Allah's Apostle added, "I have kept something for you (in my mind)."

Ibn Saiyad said, "Ad-Dukh." The Prophet said, "Ikhsa (you should be ashamed) for you can not cross your limits."

'Umar said, "O Allah's Apostle! Allow me to chop off h is neck."

Allah's Apostle said (to Umar).

 "Should this person be him then you cannot over-power him;

and should he be someone else, then it will be no use your killing him."

Abu Sa'id reported:

I accompanied Ibn Sayyad to Mecca and he said to me:

What I have gathered from people is that they think that I am Dajjal.

Have you not heard Allah's Messenger (may peace upon him) as saying: He will have no no children, I said: Yes, of course.

Thereupon he said: But I have children. Have you not heard Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: He would not enter Mecca and Medina? I said: Yes, of course.

Thereupon he said I have been once in Medina and now I intend to go to Mecca.

And he said to me at the end of his talk:

By Allaah: I know his place of birth his abode where he is just now.

He (Abu Sa'id) said: This caused confusion in my mind (in regard to his identity).

Hearts are being sifted constantly and heavily, but this time globally - no one seems to be allowed to remain oblivious to events -which indicates that a big event is in store.

 

10But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. 11Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?

12And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him:

for some said, He is a good man:

others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.

13Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.

14Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 15And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

16Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

20The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?

... 24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.....

.... 25Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?

26But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ?

27Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.

 

...40Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said,

Of a truth this is the Prophet.

41Others said, This is the Christ.

But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? 42Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

43So there was a division among the people because of him.

44And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him.

 

45Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?

46The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.

47Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived?

48Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?

49But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.50Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)

51Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?

52They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee?

Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

53And every man went unto his own house.

Edited by abz2000

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abz2000 - your rambling on and I don't even think you yourself know what you're talking about . You can't mix Jesus and Islam .Two very are different religions .

 

 Christianity and Islam do not mix - The Prophet and Jesus bring two very different messages .  Again I'll tell you .Your beliefs are your own , I do  not abide them but I do not criticize them nor would I  attempt to persuade you away from them . Be satisfied with your beliefs they are what guide your life .

 

And mine are what guide my life , and  can not be persuaded . Nor can any man really , if you stop to think  about it ,For how strong could a man's faith be , if some one were to convince him otherwise ? Only the weak change their faith OR they never really had any to begin with .

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Gnosis , game over . You lost on the other thread . You are confused and the information you have espoused is incorrect . My advice to you , is find your own way , but do not make claims that are invalid .Gnosticism is not Christianity , it is Gnosticism . Please study what Gnosticism is . I do not deny that you are a Theist . And there's nothing wrong with just being a Theist . Obviously you feel that something may be lacking .

 You seem to have just acquired the word without any earnest investigation .

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BTW :happy: This thread is about ISIS , which I chose  ,as many others , to refer to as DAESH .There is nothing good about these people ,there is no justification whatsoever for their actions , there is no reason any sane and decent human being can find to even tacitly approve this group of madmen [and women ] . They have given themselves over totally to Evil . :mad:

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