Jump to content
Islamic Forum
dot

The Terrorism Game

Recommended Posts

Anyone who watched the youtube video of slaughtering the 21 Egyptians in Lybia a couple of days ago, would immediately notice how sophisticated the video was filmed, with several professional cameras used, including flyover cameras. The subtitles. The alleged Daesh/ISIS men were noticeably taller than most Lybians and Arabs. The speech given by their leader did not include a single Arabic word. The accent of his English seems to be of native British accent. The dramatic kneeling down of the victims in perfect co-ordination is weird for victims who were about to be slaughtered. The speech was designed to address Europe, not Egypt, where the victims came from. The mention of Usama Bin laden was out of context. The threat to invade Rome was also uncalled for. The guy was wearing a Rolex in his left arm, which is not the usual way salafi people do (they wear watches in their right hand to be different than the kuffar!).

It all seemed to be a badly written scenario, by professional film makers, who did not study enough about Islam. The purpose did not seem to have any relation with Egypt. It was designed to address the west, to spread fear from Islam and Muslims, and probably to urge the western public to call for, or at least do not object to, upcoming plans of invasions of Muslim nations.

 

The immediate air strike by the Egyptian air force to Lybian teritories seemed planned well ahead, waiting for the video to be published. The coup leaders n Egypt seem willing to strike where ordered, specially when it comes to killing any one supporting Islamic sharea or ruling. They are killing their own people for israel, and ready to deliver anywhere Islam has supporters.

 

I'm not sure, but I tend to think that its all a game. The whole terrorism thing is a huge game played against Islam and Muslims, set up and financed by the zionists and US politicians. They tried it in 9-11 and it was a huge success. It opened the door for them to invade several Islamic countries, killing a few millions here and there. Now the same game is played and set up in several places around the world. Installing and supporting corrupt heads of states, specially in the Arab world, together with framing Muslims with terrorism, even if they have to invent it for them, seems very successful so far in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Lybia, Yemen, Lebanon and elsewhere.

 

Western politicians have no mercy. They would kill their own flesh and blood if its part of a bigger plan. All the slaughters Daesh made, in my view, were set up by the zionists and Americans, just to frame Muslims and prepare their people for more injustice toward innocent defenceless nations far away from them, either for oil, or for israel.

 

This world is not becoming any better. The grave seems nowadays to be the safe place to stay. I feel so sorry for the young generations and what awaits them. May Allah Al-Mighty help us all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds

Another " false flag " operation eh Dot  ?  How is it that when people claiming to be muslims , commit heinous acts , it's always the Zionists and Americans  "who really did it " ?

  So Daesh  is just another "frame up " ?

 

 No the world is not getting any better , and will only grow worse by the day . You got that much right .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We were told lots of lies about the war in Iraq. Most people did not question that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction which were never found. The conditions we see in Iraq today are related to US involvement. How can we trust the US who justified the war in Iraq? How can we trust them when they are the ones who left a country in turmoil after they destroyed peoples lives. I am sure there are lies. There are many things unclear.

 

Yet on the other hand we cannot push all our problems away and say Muslims are innocent. Even if we were to agree that this is all one big lie, that doesn't take away from the fact that some Muslims, especially younger Muslims, are confused about what Islam is. It doesn't take away from the fact that the Muslim world has not been dealing with its problems. I still see Muslims, buy Zionist products even though they complain about what israel does to Palestine. Nobody forces them to pay for these products, they do it out of choice. 

 

It is clear that no true Muslim would carry out such acts. What is clear is that on the day of judgement, if a Muslim did carry out such an act, they cannot face Allah and say, the US made me do it. Everyone will be accountable for what they did. 

 

 

There is a hadith, but I cannot recall it exactly word for word. But it is a hadith in which Prophet Muhammad pbuh warns us of the future when things will be unclear. He said that because of it, it will be best if people stay indoors. I will try find it, but if anyone remembers it, post it. But anyway that is how I am feeling now. There is too much hatred towards Islam right now and confusion amongst Muslims it is just best to remain away from it all. 

 

Ihdinas siratal mustaqeem. Siraatal ladheena anAmta alaihim ghairal maghdhoobi alayheem wa la dhaaleen. AMEEN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Paradise Lost , the only people who are "unclear " about WHO and WHAT  DAESH is , are those who are  blinded by their own predisposed biases .

 You can't blame EVERYTHING on the Americans and the "Zionists " . Those involved in DAESH are human beings [ although they are not behaving like humans ]  with free will to choose, to do or not do the heinous acts that they MOST CERTAINLY have committed and continue to commit .

 

You use that word " confused " as an excuse , for how can a man be confused over whether it is right or wrong to murder and rape ? To sever the heads of those 21 Egyptian Copts ? To burn alive captured Iraqis as well as the Jordanian pilot ?  You say they are "confused " ???

 

 You say there is too much hatred towards Islam , and you are right , it is being manufactured daily , as is hatred towards the west and jews , as that is evident in almost every political comment I see on this blog.  So there is enough hatred to go around and muslims are not an innocent party .

 

The only thing I agree with, in what you said is , YES , GOD WILL JUDGE . And " being confused " will be no excuse .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New video shows US Chinook helicopter dropping 2 boxes of weapons for ISIL militants


02-16-15


 



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice try A-H , but just about anyone who can read , knows about that drop which was for the Yadizis , but fell into the hands of DAESH some month or so again . And if this is not that drop then unfortunately it could have happened again , there is no rationale for the US to give weapons to DAESH . Try thinking abit .

 

 It's too bad there are so many gullible people . The stories they get suckered into believing , do not even make any sense , and if people had a single ounce of logic , they would see this story for what it is .

 

 Accept the fact , that although you may have your bias against the Americans , or the West or the " Zionists " , DAESH is operating on it's own with it's own vicious and perverted motives . They are behaving as animals because they have chosen to behave like animals .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Paradise Lost , the only people who are "unclear " about WHO and WHAT DAESH is , are those who are blinded by their own predisposed biases .

You can't blame EVERYTHING on the Americans and the "Zionists " . Those involved in DAESH are human beings [ although they are not behaving like humans ] with free will to choose, to do or not do the heinous acts that they MOST CERTAINLY have committed and continue to commit .

 

You use that word " confused " as an excuse , for how can a man be confused over whether it is right or wrong to murder and rape ? To sever the heads of those 21 Egyptian Copts ? To burn alive captured Iraqis as well as the Jordanian pilot ? You say they are "confused " ???

 

You say there is too much hatred towards Islam , and you are right , it is being manufactured daily , as is hatred towards the west and jews , as that is evident in almost every political comment I see on this blog. So there is enough hatred to go around and muslims are not an innocent party .

 

The only thing I agree with, in what you said is , YES , GOD WILL JUDGE . And " being confused " will be no excuse .

Aligarr I am not delusional enough to blame everything on the Americans. I have said many times on this forums that Muslims need to accept we have our own problems which we created ourselves too. I am pretty sure I have made that clear.

 

And when I have I used the word confused as an excuse? I said some Muslims are confused. I said this because there is an ideology which appears attractive to them and because of lack of Islamic education in most of the Muslim world, they cannot have the knowledge to fight against this ideology. Neither you nor I, live in a country that has been destroyed by war in the past 10 years so we cannot understand the mindset of people who live there. Yet the deeper roots behind the scene are often not discussed and the West in particular has been slow to discuss such issues.

 

I don't deny that there are some groups who are operating independently now - and I find it sad that some Muslims must find a conspiracy theory to reject this. I find it worrying that some Muslims must deny that other Muslims actually are involved in such acts. And on the other hand we don't need to be covering up the fact that such groups came to power due to America's past actions. And I don't believe that the way everything is reported in mainstream media, is the way things actually happen. America seems very unwilling to discuss how its involvement in the Middle East has led to such groups rise to power. They destroyed a country and left without any political plan in place. Basically they left people to pick up the damage they created. And America clearly isn't learning from it's mistakes as they continue to train what they deem 'moderates'. Should these groups turn against America in the future they will be called terrorists too. So in this sense I am saying Muslims should not rely on help from America.

 

America is so concerned with certain groups in the Middle East but how can Muslims take them seriously when there is no political will to fight Assad. Even now some western countries are discussing how maybe they should negotiate with Assad. All I hear is Obama going on and on and on about the terrorists. So what, is Assad no longer a terrorist?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not talking about Asad , both he and his father have a history of slaughtering their own people .  I'm talking about DAESH , and the ludicrous allegations that " it's someone else " either creating , supporting supplying or in any way assisting them .

 

As for confused ? Only those who wish to be confused , every man has a brain , equal to all others . Every,man knows the difference between civilized behavior and behaving like a savage . There is no confusion , just excuses and rationalizing barbarism .

 

As far as the West's perception of what is a terrorist ?  Any one who blows up innocent people intentionally for effect is a terrorist , regardless of cause or ethos .

 

The US has been disengaged for the most part in Iraq , yet Sunni and Shia continue to kill each other in heinous and cowardly ways .

 As far as help from America ? I agree , the US should not shed another drop of blood nor spend another dime . This is a muslim problem , and let muslims solve it . However the acts of DAESH have become so totally barbaric and savage that , yes , muslims are in fact asking the US  for help . Such is the world , I can not do anything about that .

 

But , I will not sit here and listen to ludicrous notions or allegations that the US or anyone else for that matter is driving DAESH .  Only someone woefully gullible and misinformed would believe such a thing .

Edited by Aligarr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not talking about Asad , both he and his father have a history of slaughtering their own people .  I'm talking about DAESH , and the ludicrous allegations that " it's someone else " either creating , supporting supplying or in any way assisting them .

 

As for confused ? Only those who wish to be confused , every man has a brain , equal to all others . Every,man knows the difference between civilized behavior and behaving like a savage . There is no confusion , just excuses and rationalizing barbarism .

Your right everyone has a brain to use. But I am sure our responses in time of war are very different than in times of peace. It is very difficult for humans to think rationally when their families have been slaughtered.So how can we judge from foreign lands what we think the Iraqi people should be feeling when we didn't have to live the same life as they did?

And I would just like to reiterate that I don't think that Daesh are the CIA etc. I am just saying that the conditions America created in the Middle East allowed them to come to power. 

As far as the West's perception of what is a terrorist ?  Any one who blows up innocent people intentionally for effect is a terrorist , regardless of cause or ethos .

Well then the American government and its partner in crime, israel are also terrorists,The neocons even support the idea of spreading democracy by violence because of the end result. Why must there be a double standard when it comes to labeling of terrorist?

The US has been disengaged for the most part in Iraq , yet Sunni and Shia continue to kill each other in heinous and cowardly ways .

 As far as help from America ? I agree , the US should not shed another drop of blood nor spend another dime . This is a muslim problem , and let muslims solve it . However the acts of DAESH have become so totally barbaric and savage that , yes , muslims are in fact asking the US  for help . Such is the world , I can not do anything about that .

I don't disagree that there are sectarian issues but we are not allowed discuss them on this forum. But if you think the US has not played with such divides you are really deluded.

 

The Muslim world asking for help from the US? And what help do they give, they arm people with more weapons. They arm people who they don't even understand what they are fighting for. A few years down the line they will change their minds and call the same people they armed terrorists. If you want to help Muslims why don't you take any refugees? 

 

Again you talk about the acts of Daesh as being barbaric as if America can no longer stand by? The policeman of the world just cannot sit by and watch barbarism go on? Yet America has stood by for years watching others commit acts of barbarism. Needless to say the acts of America itself in times of war that amounted to barbarism. Muslims would take America more seriously if they were consistent in who they accuse of barbarism. Why does America need to hide all the time behind this idealistic view that they are the protectors of human rights. 

But , I will not sit here and listen to ludicrous notions or allegations that the US or anyone else for that matter is driving DAESH .  Only someone woefully gullible and misinformed would believe such a thing .

You know what annoys me so much about people like you? You think we are the ones spreading ludicrous allegations yet you cannot face up to the reality of what your own government is. Why is it so hard to accept that there is such thing as state terrorism? It is just so unbelievable how unaware you people are of the reality of what America is. You really think everything they tell you is the truth. 

 

America doesn't have a duty to 'rescue' the world. Its involvement in the Middle East in the past decade is its black spot which is not going to leave the minds of Muslims right now. I wouldn't trust them so I am not surprised as to why many other Muslims wouldn't trust your government. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL..."partners in crime "  ?  First of all my reply was A-H and his allegations . So here you come making excuses . Too bad that in the middle east , if it is not different tribes or sects killing one another , then it is an absolute dictator with his boot heel on their throats preventing them from  doing so , but the dictator is no better than those he is suppressing . And when the dictator is removed ? What happens ? Back to killing one another .

 As I said , not  another drop of American blood nor another dime should be expended on the region . Today many muslims ar being killed , and many more have been killed , at the hands of other muslims . Two huge car bombs were ignited today [as usual ] . and if it makes you feel better to blame the Americans or the Jews , go right ahead .

  "People like you  " are part of the problem . And the problem is your own . At the end of the day it comes down to what it has been for the past millennia Sunni against Shia . Ira q was freed of their dictator and civil war broke out .  In Libya , the people called for the US to be protected from Kaddafi , he was removed and Libya descended into the same morass as Iraq . Syria -the same . And from this ultra extremists saw their opportunity . And now you have DAESH to deal with .

 Maybe Libya, Iraq, and Syria's dictators should have been left to their own devices ? No ? So what if they slaughter 10,000 every once in a while to keep order .

 I know what America is and what it has done , and I also know what it has not done . YOU should learn how to differentiate between the two .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The dictators? You mean the ones that America supported for decades? And the ones that it continues to support? Several countries in the central asian region have poor human rights records yet because it is a hub for energy, America doesn't discuss it openly. 

 

When civil war broke out in the Arab world, all the west could do was talk about an Arab Spring in which democracy would finally come to the Arab world. They clearly encouraged groups they sided with, regardless of understanding how this could effect the society. The basis on which America got involved in Libya was on the concept of R2P yet howcome that is not applied in even worse situations around the world? What the intervention clearly was about was regime change. Do you think we are that stupid to think that America does not have its own national interest when they get involved in foreign lands? What sane country would send their citizens to fight if they had no benefit from it? If you really think its about protecting citizens then continue to delude yourself. 

 

And you say maybe Libya, Iraq and Syria's dictators should have been left to their own devices - well America ignored these dictators for years. When the time is right they will turn on another dictator which they support right now. 

 

Everyone here knows that the American government is a hypocrite when it comes to human rights and who they brand a terrorist. Thankfully though I know there are many Americans who actually agree with us and are aware of the hypocrisy unlike you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's right America ignored those dictators for years . And dealt with them as  did everyone else . Until the people ofv those countries decided to revolt , and those dictators started murdering them wholesale .

 

 WHO did those people appeal to ? The Syrians called out to the US , the Libyans called out to the West . Unfortunately politicians in the US listened , so this is not a  ONE WAY STREET that we are on .

 

 It is my personal view that in the region, Democracy and Islam are incompatible , for religion can not be separated from politics , and the divisions in religion can not be , and will not be resolved .

 

And that is the blunder of the US and the West . If Theocracy is to be favored over Democracy , and WHOSE Theocracy , then it is a situation the West has no business in . Unfortunately the economies of the Western World as well as Asia are tied to Oil production and availability , and therein lies the problems of Western Intervention .

 

 Make no mistake here Paradise Lost , no one involved is Lilly White and Innocent . After Saddam was removed , it would have followed that Iraqis would have formed a government , but the same divisions that existed under the Ottomans immediately came to the surface . And again the there was the same Peace under the Ottomans as was with Saddam - the people were kept in check by sheer brutality .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aligarr,

 

I agree with what you have said, that the US should have no right in deciding how other countries choose to be governed. Yet this has been a contested issue throughout. Anytime a group wishes to establish Shariah law, they are determined to be an 'Islamist' Group and tainted as extreme. Even in Palestine, Gaza, the most transparent election ever, where the people voted for Hamas as their leaders. The US intervened and has called the group voted by the people for the people illegitimate.

 

The other point you made is the crux of the matter. The middle east has oil, which is a resource the west craves and requires in abundance. During the oil embargo in the early 1970's put in place by King Faisal becuase of the US's support of Isreal, Kissenger who was at the time the secretary of state, threatened to military action against saudi and to sieze the oil fields. This speaks volumes about Americas foreign policy.

 

As Bush said, your either with us, or against us. which shows the mentalilty, very similar to that of a bully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL...political expedience is practiced by all nations , and for their own reasons . Yes indeed the 70's embargo . Cut the world's oil supply for the sake of animus towards another nation .

 

BTW , to date the US has given the Palestinians over 3.5 Billion dollars , the total of Arab nations has not even come anywhere close to that . I guess you could count the rewards the Saudi's were giving to the families of suicide bombers huh ?

 

The Reason the US has shunned Hamas is because they have in their Charter the Destruction of israel , and have killed 5 American Diplomats and several American citizens in the process of attacking israel . People who suicide bomb are usually called terrorists .

 

As far as a nation wanting Sharia Law being branded as terrorist , you exaggerate a bit , it is only when it is forced upon people ,as with the Taliban that it is called extremist . Sharia law is followed in  Saudi Arabia , yet depending on the season , the Saudis either gain favor or lose it in the M.E. Like the weather definitions change , everywhere .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five Years
03-02-07

 

 

 

Wesley Clark: "Our friends and allies funded ISIS to destroy Hezbollah"
02-17-15

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHLqaSZPe98

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A-H - you misrepresent the issue .

 

Those "friends and allies " are those who wished to support the Syrian rebels against Assad . Unfortunately Al Queda and other groups of radical extremists got involved  in this civil war , bringing with them their own agendas , which were not in line with the intentions of those who may have contributed . So it is erroneous to blame  or accuse the US or anyone else for creating DAESH . DAESH are those who took advantage of those whose intention was to help the Syrian Rebels , created their own cause and morphed into a hideous murder and torture machine .

 You should know better . Hezbollah supports Assad , so yes ,you insinuate a half -truth , in that the Saudis and others  "allies " supported the REBELS , and by sheer proxy would be against Hezbollah , not expecting that support to be usurped by the radical extremists . who eventually are killing the very Syrian Rebels that they deceived others into thinking that they would be supporting .  You really should try to stay abreast of the situation , and not use newsbites out of context to attempt a valid argument or allegation .   

Edited by Aligarr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not an argument Aligarr. It's also not a secret that radical elements in Saudi Arabia [and abroad] are funding ISIL. Even so the US has been itching to remove al-Assad. If Russia hadn't been so level headed I could only imagine the devastation that might have ensued from that orchestrated chemical attack (shame on you BBC). I suspected from the beginning that the end goal of this US intervention is to get closer to "liberating" Syria. ISIL is the perfect excuse for that. Sooner or later it'll happen and another domino will topple. For shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You say the US has donated 3.5 billion (not sure where you got this from) to the palestinians? How much of that actually gets to them and how much has isreal siezed? This is the same US that funds and backs the Isreali atrocities in gaza and the westbank, their constant breach on international law. The same US that consistently Veto's palestines efforts to be internationally recognised. Do not kid yourself into thinking that the US cares about palestine.

 

Hamas may have been responisble for the killing of US citezens but so has Isreal. Not sure if you recall when they ran over two americans with a bulldozer trying to stop some demolition. Not to mention the various kilings of people from other nations.

 

People who suicide bomb are usually called terrorist? what do you call people that trap people in an high walled prison (GAZA) and then drop bombs and fire mortar indiscriminantly from the beyond the walls. What would you call people that drop white phosphurous from the sky and who sit on top of the hill and cheer as bombs land as if it was a fire work display???

 

I do not exxagerate in the slightest, when Morsi of egypt mentioned it the whole of ikhwaan was labelled as Islamist, when any political group with sharia inclination mentions it they are labelled. do not be naive. Secondly, Saudi does not implement sharia law, ask anyone. France banning the Niqab? is that not extreme, forcing people?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's right America ignored those dictators for years . And dealt with them as  did everyone else . Until the people ofv those countries decided to revolt , and those dictators started murdering them wholesale .

 

 WHO did those people appeal to ? The Syrians called out to the US , the Libyans called out to the West . Unfortunately politicians in the US listened , so this is not a  ONE WAY STREET that we are on .

 

 It is my personal view that in the region, Democracy and Islam are incompatible , for religion can not be separated from politics , and the divisions in religion can not be , and will not be resolved .

 

And that is the blunder of the US and the West . If Theocracy is to be favored over Democracy , and WHOSE Theocracy , then it is a situation the West has no business in . Unfortunately the economies of the Western World as well as Asia are tied to Oil production and availability , and therein lies the problems of Western Intervention .

 

 Make no mistake here Paradise Lost , no one involved is Lilly White and Innocent . After Saddam was removed , it would have followed that Iraqis would have formed a government , but the same divisions that existed under the Ottomans immediately came to the surface . And again the there was the same Peace under the Ottomans as was with Saddam - the people were kept in check by sheer brutality .

I didn't say that all Muslims are not innocent. I am not claiming that American people are all bad and that Muslim people are all good. I have already said that I think Muslims themselves have created problems without US involvement. However, I am not going to sit back and willingly believe everything the American government tells me. I actually have a brain which I prefer to use. There are different sides to each story and not all of them are right. Look how much America tried to cover up wikileaks, because in it were so many unheard truths, so many things that were at one point denied suddenly became evidently true. 

 

There were also people in those societies who called out for America not to get involved yet their voices aren't important. Personally, I am not against humanitarian intervention. I don't believe we should live in a world where we sit back while other innocent people in the world are being massacred. I do have a problem with humanitarian intervention being exploited though. There is a problem when the 'policeman' and 'democratic model' of the world is the largest exporter of military arms in the world. The fact remains that the military industrial complex exists because of wars. Do you honestly believe that some of the groups which are branded terrorists now did not get weapons from America at some point? 

 

Ala'adin's point about political parties being branded terrorists when they discuss sharia law is very true. However, even when political parties discuss how they would like to give more rights to religious people or even if they discuss Islam, they are branded extreme, conservative. 

 

For countries/political parties which do not support America's role of being ruler of the world well then you are framed as against human rights and basic rationality. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The $3.5 Billion donated to the Palestinians by the United States thus far is a matter of record . The fact that a group of Muslims decides they want to live according to Sharia Law is NOT what makes them terrorists , or extremists . It's when they start murdering and blowing up people to accomplish and establish that end , that is what makes them terrorists . The Saudis in truth are a duplicitous lot , in that they are willing to finance terrorists outside of their country , yet will not tolerate terrorists within their country . And who is a terrorist according to the Saudis ? Anyone who challenges the rule of the Royal Family .  The Saudis live by strict Sharia Law . That is THEIR VERSION of Sharia Law . Is DAESH behaving as the Saudis ? I think not .

 So it is an over-simplification to say that the US /WEST considers muslims who desire to live by Sharia Law as "terrorists " , because important factors are being left out .  Unless of course , anyone here is willing to state that all muslims in the middle east are choosing to live by anyone else's version of Sharia Law . There is simply no evidence that is the case . If so there would not be so many muslims killing muslims  as is self -evident .

 

 As for Syria , citizens revolt , Assad sets out to brutally crush them . no matter the cost in lives .The rebels call out to the United States to come to their aid , however Al Queda , and numerous other radical factions APPEAR to be coming to Syria to assist the rebel against ASSAD , but soon that turns out NOT to be the case , because these groups come to establish their Calipha , and begin to kill any of the Syrian Rebel who disagree . They then start to fight amongst themselves those called ISIL under Al-  Bagdadi against Al Queda and other factions , in addition to going into Iraq , where the US has already pulled out ,and begin to wreak havoc on everyone , muslim and Christian alike . The tools were put in place for a Democratic Govt in Iraq . But Sectarian disputes ,violence and killing  grew day by day, the Shia led Government excluded the Sunni and with the entry of ISIL descends into chaos and mayhem . Does anyone here think that the Iraqis were inviting ISIL into their country ?  So AGAIN , Iraq calls out to the US .

 

This is not "America wanting to rule the world " that is simply the same old rhetoric . The Blunder of the US , was to assume that people of the region wanted Democracy , to elect their leaders .The Blunder was compounded by removing Saddam , for it was in fact only a matter of a brutal dictator suppressing an age old battle between Sunni and Shia . That repeated itself in Libya ,and another blunder . That is why the US stayed out of the Syrian civil war , ISIL was the game changer this time around . Do you want DAESH to run rampant throughout the region ? Do the peoples want to live under a caliphate ruled by and according to DAESH ?   WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK OF Jordanian  , Egyptian , UAE , or Saudi intervention ?  What do you want the US or ANYONE to do about Assad ? Would you all rather the US  do nothing ? Who came to the aid of the Yazidis ?  The Kurds ?  Would you rather they would be ignored ? 

  Sorry but it's a screwed up world , and it's not all the fault of the US . And I honestly don't know how all this will turn out . I am not optimistic . What I do know is that DAESH will not prevail , they will be destroyed , for they go beyond merely a desire for Sharia Law or a calipha , they have descended into madness . And Terrorism has never accomplished anything at anytime , it has only led to war . To desire to establish Sharia Law is NOT terrorism , that is determined by the means by which is chosen to achieve it .
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems that you do not really read what we write, you just select a few things then make up your own conclusion.

 

I agree though with what you said, just because i want to live being ruled by the sharia law does not make me a terrorist, however 'study groups' in the west would label me as an 'Islamist' and a muslim with extreme tendancies. Clear proof on this if you dont believe me research into any Muslim speaker that preaches sharia.

 

"It's when they start murdering and blowing up people to accomplish and establish that end , that is what makes them terrorists ."

 

This statement from who i really like, I would like to know what you think where the US army falls under this. They have burdered and blown up a lot more Iraqi's than DAESH (I do not support DAESH at all). You failed to answer my question about Isreal.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear ala'adin  I do red all they people post . And the key to understanding what is being said is, to read inbetween the lines . I am well aware of the US Army , and who they were fighting . And I'm aware of the collateral damage . The US Army is out of Iraq now for almost two  years . There is only now a remnant to protect Bagdad and train the Iraqi  Army .

 

Yes now there are airstrikes , WHO has requested them ?  WHO is DAESH attacking and killing ? With DAESH it is NOT collateral damage , it is all intentional .

 

The battles fought in Iraq were against those who were killing Iraqis were they not ?  Wascthe US  Army putting car bombs in Masjid , Bakeries , Employment Lines , Police Stations , Schools , Hospitals .

 WHO was doing that in Iraq ala'adin ?

 

WHO has been doing the car bombings that occur on almost a daily basis in Iraq for the past two years? The US ARMY  ?  Does the US ARMY attack ,  and then hide amongst  civilians ? Indeed fight from amongst civilians ?

 

Perhaps you are not reading what I have said , nor answered the questions I asked in the post you replied to .

 

 Should there be no air strikes against DAESH ? Should the YAZIDI have been left to be cornered an murdered on that mountain ? After the Iraqi army dropped their weapons and ran from DAESH , should that be ignored ?   Do you think the Iraqi people want to be ruled by DAESH ?

 

 

As fir my statement on Sharia Law and TERRORISTS , I think I made my point quite clear . If people choose to live under Sharia Law or desire to live under Sharia Law , I clearly stated  that DOES NOT make them terrorists - they become terrorists when they begin to murder and blowup people  in order to impose their will .

I know you won't accept this fact , but most Iraqis killed in Iraq have been killed by other Iraqis .

 

Maybe you fell that Saddam should have been left in Power free to continue to wipe out Shia in the South and Kurds in the North  ? And maybe the invasion into Kuwait by Saddam , should have been ignored ?

 

Iraq did not get to the state it is in overnight .There has been a long chain of events over the past 20 years that have brought the situation to where it is today , and it can not all be blamed on the US .  What of the Iran Iraq War ? Was that the fault of the US ? Or was it meddling by Shia Iran into the South of Iraq ? And was that meddling not indirectly caused by the slaughter of Shia by Saddam in the South of Iraq ?

Edited by Aligarr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aligarr,

 

 

 I am well aware of the US Army , and who they were fighting . And I'm aware of the collateral damage . The US Army is out of Iraq now for almost two years . There is only now a remnant to protect Bagdad and train the Iraqi Army .

 

Did the US army commit acts of terrrorism? becuase based on your definition in previous posts, they did.

 

 

The battles fought in Iraq were against those who were killing Iraqis were they not ? Wascthe US Army putting car bombs in Masjid , Bakeries , Employment Lines , Police Stations , Schools , Hospitals .

WHO was doing that in Iraq ala'adin ?

 

I have not tried to say that all iraqis are innocent, however who caused the situation to be like that? There are many ways to remove a dictator. A full scale invasion is not the best one.

 

 

Should there be no air strikes against DAESH ? Should the YAZIDI have been left to be cornered an murdered on that mountain ? After the Iraqi army dropped their weapons and ran from DAESH , should that be ignored ? Do you think the Iraqi people want to be ruled by DAESH ?

 

Again i dont support DAESH, yet you seem to love bringing them back up constantly! Lets look at this another way. If the 'noble' US Army cared so much about civilians, where was the defence of the people of homs, when they were left defenceless in a city with no food and facing constant shelling from the Assad regime. Lets move away from the arab states for a min. What about in Burma where there is outright brutal ethnic cleansing going on. Or even in Africa? Lets not kid ourselves about these airstrikes.

 

 

 

As fir my statement on Sharia Law and TERRORISTS , I think I made my point quite clear . If people choose to live under Sharia Law or desire to live under Sharia Law , I clearly stated that DOES NOT make them terrorists - they become terrorists when they begin to murder and blowup people in order to impose their will .

I know you won't accept this fact , but most Iraqis killed in Iraq have been killed by other Iraqis .

 

Again you are not reading what i am writing! Im not saying what you think, im saying how it is portrayed in the media and the view held by the common person now. Secondly that is not a fact, reports suggest that US military is responisble for over 116000 civilian deaths and that is a very conservative number. can you still call all those live collaterall?

 

 

 

Maybe you fell that Saddam should have been left in Power free to continue to wipe out Shia in the South and Kurds in the North ? And maybe the invasion into Kuwait by Saddam , should have been ignored ?

 

Iraq did not get to the state it is in overnight .There has been a long chain of events over the past 20 years that have brought the situation to where it is today , and it can not all be blamed on the US . What of the Iran Iraq War ? Was that the fault of the US ? Or was it meddling by Shia Iran into the South of Iraq ? And was that meddling not indirectly caused by the slaughter of Shia by Saddam in the South of Iraq ?

 

You seem to be getting very defensive, i never once advocated the killing or wiping out of any people. Nor did i advocate illegal occupation. rather you seem to be trying hard to justify the blatant acts of terrorism of the US. Again i repeat there are many conflicts in different regions however the super powers only get involved when their interests are met, not for humanitarian reasons. They side with a regime which suits them and turn a blind eye so long as it suits them. Do not forget America played a key part in the Iranian revolution, which led to meddling. Do not forget that Saddam hussein was honured in the united states and seen a friend.

 

I think you need to be honest with yourself and accept what is fact, that according to your definition the US army has carried out terrorism and supports terrorist/extremist governments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


ala'adin , I know you want to hear me say the US Army are terrorists .  My answer to that is no .  There is no moral equivalence to an Army being put in to a guerilla war , fighting an enemy that wears no uniform , uses women and children to do their fighting and strikes and retreats to hide amongst civilians . Seems to be that tactic of choice in the M.E.

 In fact I give the actual soldiers themselves the highest of credits . They were and are literal walking targets . They do not shed their uniforms . They are brave and courageous , but they are also human .

 

 I would take issue with the people who sent them there , the politicians .

 

You can not make  a comparison with terrorists because terrorists intentionally target and kill civilians for effect . Tyere is no military reason to blow up police stations , bakeries with people waiting on line to buy bread , car bombs in market places .

 Such attacks were aimed at Iraqis BY Iraqis . Yes , civilians were killed , not by policy nor strategy . If you can not determine the difference , then you never will and you are wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise .

 

After Saddam was removed from power , WHO was the US Army attacking ? You won't answer honestly so I'll tell you , THOSE who were attacking them , unfortunately those attacks come from amidst civilians , making it an inevitable consequence that civilians will be killed .

 

 There is nothing you nor anyone else can say to convince me that the US Army were terrorists . There may have been individuals that committed crimes , and when discovered were prosecuted , and I'm sure not all were discovered . But this was not by policy or strategy . Tell me , how many of the Iraqis ,be they Sunni or Shia who have intentionally  blown up indiscriminately , innocent civilians , faced ANY legal consequence or justice ? -  NONE . Yes REVENGE has been taken one against the other , and always against the innocent for how could they know the perpetrators .

 

 No you can not make comparison .

 As far as "how did Iraq get in that state"  ? After the Kuwait invasion the US  removed Iraq from Kuwait . Decimated it's Amy , and left Saddam along with his Republican Guard intact . Iraq's infrastructure intact .

 

But Saddam continued to kill Shia in the South and Kurds in the North , so -no fly zones were established under Bush Sr. and Clinton . Again , that did not involve civilians .

 

Then , STILL UNDER CLINTON ,  Bin Laden with the  aid of the Taliban made a first attempt in '93 to blow up the WTC killing US citizens .  Then TWO American Embassies in Africa were blown up killing hundreds of African Citizens and several American Citizens - What ? Still no attack on Iraq . Just an Embargo which was FALSLELY BLAMED FOR STARVING CHILDREN which was nothing buy pure B.S. Saddam had the resources to feed his people as the Embargo did not in any way curtail Food and Medical supplies - That is a lie ARABS and MUSLIMS bought . Saddam was busy rebuilding his army and air defenses and a few more palaces for himself and his psychopath sons .  If you choose to believe the lie - go ahead .

 

 Then the Kobar Towers were blown up n Saudi Arabia killing USAF personnel , and then the USS COLE in Yemen killing USN personnel - what ? Still no invasion . still no Iraqis getting killed except for military in aircraft violating the no-fly zone which was there for the express purpose of protecting Kurds and Shia .  

  Then came 9/11 - all bets were off  .  Al Queda  was guilty ,which EVERYONE knew was behind the attack , Afghanistan was asked to give up Bin laden , they refused and were invaded .

  Up to that point , I have no problem with US policy . Unfortunately by Saddams blustering and actions , along with the suspicion that Al Queda was somehow connected to Iraq , and the misleading CIA reports of "weapons of mass destruction " add that to Cheney and the rest of the warmongers in Wash.D.C> Iraq was again invaded , and that was a BLUNDER >

 But again the US Army were not Terrorists . Saddam was removed and the religious faction as well as survivors in the Baath party waged war against the US Army . Iraqis instead of uniting once Saddam was removed descended into Civil War amongst religious factions , all attacking the US ARMY , with no set battlefields or uniformed forces , but throughout the country by forces and factions in city streets . That is what the US Army faced . A government was forme d but now a Shia lead govt.which excluded Sunnis - indiscriminate car bombing and slaughters faction against faction continued unabated with The US Army in the middle ,again walking targets .

   That is the situation to date , and NO , the USArmy were not and are not Terrorists . Virtually every Iraqi killed in the past few years have been killed by fellow Iraqis , now with Al Queda , and most recently DAESH .

 So you believe whatever you choose .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

There is no moral equivalence to an Army being put in to a guerilla war , fighting an enemy that wears no uniform , uses women and children to do their fighting and strikes and retreats to hide amongst civilians . Seems to be that tactic of choice in the M.E.

 

What Guerilla war? the US army bombs from skies and levels the ground, they use drones indisciminantly is other countries outside the middle east. Who was the enemy at the start of the Iraq war? What made Iraq an enemey to the US?

 

 

 

 In fact I give the actual soldiers themselves the highest of credits . They were and are literal walking targets . They do not shed their uniforms . They are brave and courageous , but they are also human .

 

I do not give them any credit, fighting in an illegal occupation, with superior might and technology. People should have the courage to stand up to what is wrong, not follow orders blindly.

 

 

You can not make a comparison with terrorists because terrorists intentionally target and kill civilians for effect . Tyere is no military reason to blow up police stations , bakeries with people waiting on line to buy bread , car bombs in market places .

Such attacks were aimed at Iraqis BY Iraqis . Yes , civilians were killed , not by policy nor strategy . If you can not determine the difference , then you never will and you are wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise .

 

Your definition of terrorism changes with each post, you need to stay consistent. Your right there is no reason to blow up Police stations and bakeries, yet this is what the US army did from the skies. Including hospitals and residence towers. To stand behind this notion that collateral is acceptable and in fact is accepted is the exact reason as to why the soldiers treated the iraqis so poorly. So what if we 'accidentally' killed a dozen, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. One life is sacred, one! yet over 115000 civilian, many of which were women and children. Entire families wiped out, yet this is not by stratergy? What was their stratergy then.

 

I recall listening to an interview with a former General of the US army who said "the only way to stop these people is to make them taste what they can lose, no one wants to bury their own family" the answer was in reference to the amount of civilians killed. His statment showed they thought the killing of civilians brought down the morale of the iraqi's and would make them surrender.

 

Continuing on the policy, more and more we find out about the torture that was used in the detention camps in Iraq, the rape and the humiliation committed by many soldiers, not just a few. What made them think it was perfectly fine and why didnt these, 'brave' couragous individuals as you like to call them stand up for the basic human rights of the people, in their own damn country!

 

Up to that point , I have no problem with US policy . Unfortunately by Saddams blustering and actions , along with the suspicion that Al Queda was somehow connected to Iraq , and the misleading CIA reports of "weapons of mass destruction " add that to Cheney and the rest of the warmongers in Wash.D.C> Iraq was again invaded , and that was a BLUNDER >

But again the US Army were not Terrorists . Saddam was removed and the religious faction as well as survivors in the Baath party waged war against the US Army . Iraqis instead of uniting once Saddam was removed descended into Civil War amongst religious factions , all attacking the US ARMY , with no set battlefields or uniformed forces , but throughout the country by forces and factions in city streets . That is what the US Army faced . A government was forme d but now a Shia lead govt.which excluded Sunnis - indiscriminate car bombing and slaughters faction against faction continued unabated with The US Army in the middle ,again walking targets .

 

That was a blunder! You call close to 1m iraqis being killed 3m being displaced a blunder? Seriously what is going on in your mind. there is no word to describe it that i can think of. The US Army must take full responsibility, do you think that you can declare war on a country for no reason, based on fabrication, destroy its major cities and infrastructure, blow up hundreds of thousands of people, leaving others heavily injured, maimed and disabled, then expect the country to welcome you with open arms? No country in the world would accept that. Saddam was removed and Iraqs army was defeated, they had no uniform to fight under. Do not make the US Army to be innocent they are far from it. They killed, injured, displaced, raped and tortured. Then on top of that they showed their true colours when defending the interests of the US, namely oil sites. They then backed a government hell bent on revenge against the sunni population, but a government that bowed down to the US wishes.

 

You may not want to admit it, but the evidence is clear, and America walks away from this all without a single charge to it name. They committed some of the worse crimes in history in Iraq and yet it is overlooked.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×