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Exploring The True Meaning Of "belief"

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Good answer Yasnov. Unfortunately intellectually curious people lack the wisdom to accept that all people do not view reality as they do. They then facetiously contend that the beliefs of others contradict their own version of reality.

  I apologize for breaking into your discussion with Donald_M  , but I sense his questions are simply baiting  in nature ,and as long as any answer  is given  in disagreement with his view , the " honest questions "  will eventually become condescending , with the excuse of curiosity.


 Donald_M ,as well as llogical and Russell are atheists , and that is totally ok , as far as I'm concerned. However they argue that they have a better reason for their position than that of the Theist , when in fact , both Theist and Atheist are arguing a philosophical issue , and the conclusions reached by any individual is unique to that individual. There is no proof for or against , only opinion. So both sides are expressing in effect, a "faith " in their own position. Yet the atheist will claim that they never operate in "faith " per se , whereas they would call it  scientific probability , or hypotheses based on as of yet unproven and un- tested science. Some men will look at the Universe , nature , and reality and conclude that it is purposed , while others will view the same as chance. Levels of education have nothing to do  with it , for there are also those on the leading edge of science,  amongst their peers who concluded that there is indications of purpose.

 It is a circular argument.  


Hello again, Eclipse.


Conclusions reached by an individual are indeed unique to that individual.

But any truths within such conclusions are not subjective - They are true or they are not.


The information (education) you have access to, plays a big part in making you who you are.

You can't become a nuclear physicist without the opportunity to become a nuclear physicist - Obviously.

And there's no possibility of you becoming a Muslim either, without the prerequisites.


Faith is hope. People don't use the word to describe a scenario they'd rather avoid.

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Donald_M , since this thread is running along the same lines as a few others that both you and I are engaged in , as well as Russell , the answers and questions are similar , and all have no definitive answer .

  You have however made an error in your reckoning . All decisions made by an individual are highly subjective . Why , because you are a product of all you heard ,seen and read .And it is obvious that ,even among any group that  has seen, heard, and read the same , conclusions will vary .  For this reason , not all who are born into a belief system ,remain in it , some reject , some modify ,some change . A person's world view is shaped by several factors ,a compilation of experiences , sensory perspectives , introspection , perception of reality etc . One thing all have in common though , and that is irrespective of acceptance, and that is no one knows for sure what the ultimate true reality is . Scientists don't know , theists and atheists as well as religionists don't know . Faith is settling into a conclusion with all things taken into account . Looking over the possibilities and probabilities help determine that position .

 I would guess you have at this point in your life reached your own conclusion on what reality is , or perhaps what even you hope it to be .


btw - every one has to die Donald , no exceptions [ if that was that "scenario " you claimed those who have hope/faith are avoiding ] But that is the Big Question , isn't it Donald?  Rest assured Donald , no one wants to die , no matter who , atheist , theist , doesn't matter . Everyone hopes consciousness will continue after death of the corporeal body .  The only difference here is that some people admit that and others don't .  That is Universal , and transcends any religion , tribe , creed , cult  , and yes scientists too . We all internalize this one way or another , and how it comes out is a crap shoot . LOL...is it not ?

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Where did I mention decisions and their lack of subjectiveness?

Things that are true, are true regardless of you saying so.


I know I'm a product of all I've read etc... You know this. I've been talking determinism for days.


No two people have ever seen, heard, read or experienced the very same things. That is nonsense.

The second you hug a child a little more than another, you create two different people who will respond differently.

Not to mention every other environmental factor, including genetics.


Everyone hopes consciousness will continue after death of the corporeal body.


Do they? How have you had the opportunity to extrapolate such data?

I'm quite happy to die knowing that the material used to build my body will be used by the universe to build something else.


I've no issue with a meaningless existence. The opportunity to exist was pleasure enough.

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It seems to me that to most religious folks, the word belief holds the highest credibility even when it's detached from reason.For example for someone who believes in Allah or Jesus or the teachings of Joseph Smith no scientific evidence can change their minds since they have a strong belief. My question is then how do we consolidate this reality with the fact that there are so many beliefs with each claiming that they have the right one? Chances are that most strong believers follow their parents or ancestors, How do we differentiate strong belief from being socially conditioned and or brainwashed?


very easy


you have to look for logic and scientific facts, if it match this then it is the correct one.

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