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parvez mushtaq

Shaving Without Gillette Is Mutilation !

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Assalamualaikum Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu

 

let me start this article the verse from quran

 

4:82. Do they not then consider the Qur'ân carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.

 

 

How about shaving with out Gillette, I mean without razor ,shaving foam or after shave . you will left with two options ,one, pluck you beard or use a knife or any other sharp object to shave .Can you imagine the pain and by the way what will happen to our face .This was the way our ancestors used to shave .So shaving was like mutilation in those days .due to this no one used to shave at least regularly as we are doing now  

 

In other words almost everyone had beard!

 

let me show you few coins 

 

  220px-KhosrauIIDinarHistoryofIran.jpg?do
       Coins of Khosrow II

 220px-Revolt_of_the_Heraclii_solidus%2C_

    Gold solidus of Heraclius and his father

 

 

These are the coins from the age of Prophet Mohammed (SAW) (refer Quran Surah Rum )
Note that both the Romans and the Persian kings had beard!


Abu Hurayrah " reported that the ruler of Yemen, appointed by the Persian emperor Kisra, sent two envoys to the Messenger !. When they came into his presence, he noticed that they had shaved their beards and let their moustaches grow big. Hating their ugly appearance, he turned his face away and said, “Woe be to you, who told you to do so?” They replied: “Our lord (Kisra) did!” The Messenger ! responded: “But my Lord, exalted and glorified be He, has commanded me to spare my beard and trim my moustaches.” [Recorded by Ibn Jarir at-Tabari, Ibn Sa’d, and Ibn Bishran. Verified to be hasan (good) by al-Albani (Fiqh us-Sirah by al-Ghazali p. 359)]

 

It is very clear from this hadith none of them shaved out of their own will unless otherwise they were force to do so. Note that as per coins kisra emperor himself had beard but he ordered his messengers  to shave their beard.

According to the Malikis:
“Shaving the beard is prohibited, as is cutting it if it causes a (clear) mutilation. But if it becomes oversized, and if cutting it would not appear as a mutilation, then it may be cut; but that would be disliked and contrary to that which is better.” [sharh ur-Risalah by Abu al-Hasan, and the commentary on it by al-Adwi]
One more reference from the past is
Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi said:

“All of the scholars agree that shaving the beard is a form of mutilation, and is prohibited.” [Maratib ul-Ijma' (p.157), and al-Muhalla (2:189)]


‘So it is evident from these sources that NO ONE IN THE PAST SHAVED THEIR BEARD!.At least regularly they might had shaved once or twice in their whole life span! In other words almost everyone had beard


Now let me take this famous hadith
Imam Bukhari (Rahimahullaah) reports on the authority of Imam Nafi' [ra] who narrates from Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar, Radi-Allahu anhu, that Rasulullah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, 'Oppose the Mushrikeen (polytheists); lengthen the beards and trim the moustaches.'


Everyone who wants to prove beard is wajib (mandatory) uses this hadith.But one thing was left in almost every article I read about beard.This hadith was addressed to people who had beard because none of them used to shave!


So the direct implementation of this hadith is not to cut the beard .in other words ,prophet Mohammed (SaW) was commanding people who were already having beard not to cut their beard and let it grow .This hadith was not about shaving the beard.
But down the ages everyone use to cut their beard right from ibn  umar (Ra) abu huraira(Ra) to all the prominent scholars of those period .They never had issue of cutting the beard  

 
Lets see few statements of our scholars about long beard 

 

– Abu Dawood was asked about Abee Isra’eel al-Malaee and he said he was mentioned in front of Hussain al-Jua’fee and he said:

‘He used to have a long beard and was stupid.’

[swalaat al-Aajjuri Li Imam Abee Dawood 1/122 no.62]


Imam Shafi’aee said:
‘Whenever the beard is lengthened the intellect is lessened.’
[al-Wafi bilwafayaat 2/123 in the biography of Imam Shafi’aee]

 

  Al-Mu’mal bin Isma’eel said: I heard Abu Hanifah said: It is said:

‘Whoever had a long beard did not have intellect.’

[Collected by Ibn Hibban in ‘Thiqaat’ 9/162]


These comments were taken from  http://abdurrahman.org/2015/10/06/cutting-the-beard-after-the-fist-compiled-translated-by-abbas-abu-yahya/


Is it possible that sahabas and the prominent scholars were not following the hadith in our discussions and they were going against our  prophet or was it that they had no doubt that the hadith was meant only for a particular occasion?
I think the latter one is true because our sahabas and scholars had no issue in these regard and they knew hadith better than us.

My point is not about leaving the beard or cutting it but the fatwas based on this hadith
How can they declare people without beard are fasiq
How can they declare people who shave their beard are open sinners?

As per these people we can perform salah behind osama bin laden but we cannot perform salah behind Abdul Basit Abdus Samad

 

 

How can a beard become a yardstick  to measure piety!

 

or is it as told by Ibn al-Qayyim

“Islamic rulings change with changing customs, circumstances, and with time and location, and in consideration of the intention of the one engaged in the matter.”

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Romans and Egyptians were clean shaven . Better knives ?

lol. they must be having crystal laser edge knives .how about trying a shave with crystal laser edge knife without foam and after shave.do remember to tell me how you felt after the classical shave ! 

 

What you are talking about is army uniform .even this trend changed from time to time .as per coins Heraclius had beard and Otto ,another roman emperor, used to swear by his beard which was hanging till his chest !

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You are correct  parvez . Beards have come and gone over the Millennia , and for different reasons .Alexander had his soldiers trim their beards before battle , lest the enemy drag them down off their horses by the beard . The first razors are recorded in about the 6th century B.C.E. by the Romans . Before that one would plug the hair out - ouch !!  with hinged sea shells or scrub it off with pumice stones . So I agree with you 100 % ,without a gillette  we would face mutilation !  The Egyptians on the other hand shaved but wore false beards to  appear as the Pharoahs. The Romans had razors but they rusted quickly . I guess we were born at the right time in history for shaving eh ?  

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You are correct  parvez . Beards have come and gone over the Millennia , and for different reasons .Alexander had his soldiers trim their beards before battle , lest the enemy drag them down off their horses by the beard . The first razors are recorded in about the 6th century B.C.E. by the Romans . Before that one would plug the hair out - ouch !!  with hinged sea shells or scrub it off with pumice stones . So I agree with you 100 % ,without a gillette  we would face mutilation !  The Egyptians on the other hand shaved but wore false beards to  appear as the Pharoahs. The Romans had razors but they rusted quickly . I guess we were born at the right time in history for shaving eh ?  

 

Not only this, we are very graceful when compared to ancient generations.

They never had KFC or Al-BaIK,so  they had to fetch for their own food and it was daily struggle for them.As per Islamic sources even having a extra garments was a luxury, of course they never had Reid and Taylor or van heusen .I don’t know what shoe or socks they had but in Islamic references they were having socks and shoes yet they never had Bata socks or woodland shoes.

Particularly in Saudia where even today they are importing basic things like cakes, biscuits, shoes, juices, brushes etc.If you go there, particularly in Mecca, you will not even find sand to cultivate .Mecca is just a rocky city. Thanks to petroleum, otherwise they might also be like their ancestors but can you notice one thing, people who were starving without clothes challenged the mighty Persians and Romans and they were successful!what was the driving force behind them, ecli? Can you imagine ,so called human rubbish conquering the mighty Persians and Romans.

Or is it that this verse of Quran becoming a reality.

 

93.5 And your Lord is going to give you, and you will be satisfied.

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Nothing happens on this Earth , good or bad , that is not first allowed by God . Men have free will , but God knows the end from the beginning , and knows what men will choose , but the circumstances are put in place by , or made possible by God , so in the  end , it will be His Will that will be done .  Kingdoms rise and fall , all within His purview , no man becomes King whether good or bad , against his Will .Today the world is on fire , men will do what they will do , but God knows the end from the beginning , and His Will,  will be done . Even men who go against His will , no matter what they do , God will prevail . The problem we face today is that men claim to know His Will , then act accordingly . In reality if men did know His will , the world would not be on fire today . God allows men to languish in their folly .

Edited by ECLIPSE

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Nothing happens on this Earth , good or bad , that is not first allowed by God . Men have free will , but God knows the end from the beginning , and knows what men will choose , but the circumstances are put in place by , or made possible by God , so in the  end , it will be His Will that will be done .  Kingdoms rise and fall , all within His purview , no man becomes King whether good or bad , against his Will .Today the world is on fire , men will do what they will do , but God knows the end from the beginning , and His Will,  will be done . Even men who go against His will , no matter what they do , God will prevail . The problem we face today is that men claim to know His Will , then act accordingly . In reality if men did know His will , the world would not be on fire today . God allows men to languish in their folly .

 

Hello Eclipse.   I hope I'm not thought to be offensive here, but I am seriously curious about where knowledge come from, or in this case, how you came by it.  You claim to know precisely what God knows- from beginning to end, as you say.  But how do YOU know what God knows?  How do YOU know that God's Will will be done in the end?  Did God tell you this personally, or are you just speculating, or did you read this somewhere?  

 

Cheers and best wishes,

 

Olaf. 

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Hello Olaf , sorry you misinterpreted my post . I do not pretend to know God's will , and I mistrust anyone who makes that claim . My point was , and perhaps I should have clarified it .

 If one starts with the basic premise of the existence of God , then it would be almost instinctual to assume that God , did not bring about the conditions for man, with free will and awareness of self , to evolve , only to see His work destroy itself , bring about sorrow and misery .Albeit, free will of men is responsible for all we see today , the good and the bad . And since so much of this misery , down through the millennia has been caused by men who claimed to know God's will and acted upon their delusion , I simply state that no one knows what God's will is , for if there is a God , that would indicate a being with infinite intellect , all knowing , able to traverse time as one would walk back and forth through a room . Having said that , again I don't know God's Will , but I do know what is not God's will . So if a man through his own free will determines that it is God's will that he should behave as men have behaved throughout our history , I can say that behavior is NOT God's will . However , we do have free will , which is part of our existence , which is a natural part of the Universe , the First Cause of which, being God ,who no doubt allows and oversees this mess , does not relinquish overall control of our ultimate fate .  No matter what we do , God will counter , no matter how many moves or countermoves , ultimately His Will , prevails . And because if there is a God , then God knows the end from the beginning , and the end will be according to God's will not ours , as our will is obviously destructive , yet God will counter our actions one way or another to comply with and accomplish that which is according to God's will .

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Thank you ECLIPSE. A thoroughly thought out answer, I must say. There's possibly a number of points there that could be debated, but the one I think is most intriguing is that of FREE WILL. How can you, I or we be absolutely certain that we have free will? Perhaps our brains are as they are, having developed organically from a genetic base, influenced by external (environmental) factors beyond our control, and ultimately having been set like a cast die; controlling' us irrespective of our imaginings that we have free will. That's possibly why some people having undergone childhood religious indoctrination, find themselves unable to release themselves from the bondage of their religious beliefs, no matter how illogical or how powerful the contradictory evidence. And in the same way, I cannot become a religious person: my brain just cannot take seriously what it recognises as pure humbug, and thus prevents me, the 'conscious' person, from even considering it. I could suggest for instance that I didn't really want to write all this, but that my brain made me do it! I think there's a chance that free will is not as simple a concept as is currently bandied around...particularly by 'believers', who like to use it as a 'blame' justification.

Edited by Olaf

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Hi Olaf , yours is a common argument , especially it seems among atheists , as I've had this debate before . I 'm beginning to think , that it's an ideological artifact that accompanies atheism .

 I doubt if you were somehow compelled to respond to my post by any anthropomorphic, psychological. or physiological tendency . You read what I posted and made a choice , to counter my view, agree with it, or simply ignore it . If you feel that you ceded that choice to  learned or evolutionary necessity , then you are in the realm of opinion , not fact . As is my position . It is my opinion that we possess free will barring any congenital defect or pathological dysfunction .

 I think atheists assume that if one claims free will , that translates automatically to a belief in God . Although I do believe in God , that assumption is not necessarily nor even statistically true . I've spoken to and in fact know as friends several atheists who in fact would take the position , that we as humans operate under free will , not by any conditioned or learned experiences .

  Of course this type of discussion eventually leads to questions regarding the causality of the Universe , as I am familiar with your position , There are " two " others I have engaged on these threads regarding the same subject .  That too eventually , in fact inevitably , brings one to the same questions as to the Universe and it's origin , and as I stated to others , nothing is known regarding that . So opposing views are left to opinion ,  intuition, wishful thinking , and conjecture . Other than a claim by the individual there is no empirical evidence for Free Will , we must use consciousness and self awareness to come to that conclusion of possessing free will  or  as you are implying , a lack thereof .  I appreciate and respect your opinion . I stand on mine .

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Choice is limited & freedom is boundless;

If our will is constrained, it cannot be free.

 

Please consider alternative adjectives.

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Coming back with your opinion again Donald ? We've already presented our respective views . Since you are in agreement with Olaf's position , I must assume you have addressed your post to me , as  "Olaf  " and I are the only ones discussing the subject .   Your will may very well be constrained ,   mine is not , but you already knew that / game over Donald.

 

Please consider freedom of opinion .

 

You must learn to tolerate differences of opinion.

Edited by ECLIPSE

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Behave.

No-one's redefining the word 'free' just for your idea of free-will.

Many apologies.

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Read the post again Donald  . Do you have rocks in your head ? Keep your apologies , they're not necessary nor desired .  

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