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Anyway... why aren't the England, Scotland and Wales (and maybe Northern Ireland) topics merged for correctness?

 

Because , we're talking about" Islam in England" (only), not "Islam in Great Britain" (England, Northern Ireland , Wales and Sotland) That would be too vague..:D

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:D

 

Islam in England is certainly a mixed bag. Or shoudl I say 'Muslims'. The society is evidently not geared towards Islamic behaviour and morals but that would be silly to expect in a largely secular, western society. All I ask is for the freedom to meet with my Creator for short periods five times a day, wear my head-covering without facing problems from the administration, be able to practice my faith, and live my life in a peaceful and productive way. As long as I am able to do that, I am happy to stay in this land. At the moment I get a lot more than is afforded to me in some "Muslim majority" countries. The second that changes, and it may, I will leave. But for now, I am content in England.

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Islam in England though... it encourages terms like "English" and so on. I have a huge chip on my shoulder with this kind of thing. It seperates us from our other British brethren who fought in WWII with us and so on. This shouldn't happen, or soon the Union might dissolve... (this is bad)

 

But anyway, to Emel, I respect as do most that you have the right to do these things. But surely you can understand people are irritated when your (undemocratically elected) representatives demand "seperate holidays" just for "you". It isn't fair, nor is it productive for the economy. Things that people don't find fair either is that while we teens are forced to remove our hoodies and caps, you may keep your head-covering on, which is quite prejudiced.

 

I don't have a major problem with Islam, but slowly but surely I think Islam is becoming less and less popular, and unfortunately - it is for you to deal with. We constantly hear about how our government is (wasting money) in reaching out to greet muslims, but muslims don't seem to reach out to us. This may just be because of the media but I personally can't see it. Also, statements such as "We want to see the flags of Islam fly over downing street" are quite offensive when at the same time you are seen to demand that we cannot fly our England flags at the time of the world cup on the grounds that it is offensive (reminders of the crusade) (note: England as a football team- flag OK!) .

 

You guys have serious PR to do :D Not a lot of us will join forums like this to get a true scope of Islam.

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I'm amazed by the level of naivety displayed by some members in this thread.

Islam has never been flavour of the month in England, but now it is despised by large sections of English society, and i'm not talking about ignorant chavs. I have met professionals from all walks of life who have nothing but comtempt for muslims in England.

 

I see and hear it everyday. It's very rare that a social gathering does not include an anti-islamic rant. There is a huge amount of hostility simmering under the surface.

If you honestly believe that the English public will simply tolerate all you throw at them, you are kidding yourselves.

 

I'm sure there are some white converts to Islam on this forum. I suggest they go to any informal social gathering, anywhere in England and ask for peoples opinions of Islam. If they do not suspect a set-up and give you truthful answers, i believe this will give you a valuable insight into the true level of animosity.

It's only a matter of time and common acceptance before these views are no longer confined behind closed doors.

We have already seen the begginings of this shift, at the ballot box.

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But anyway, to Emel, I respect as do most that you have the right to do these things. But surely you can understand people are irritated when your (undemocratically elected) representatives demand "seperate holidays" just for "you". It isn't fair, nor is it productive for the economy. Things that people don't find fair either is that while we teens are forced to remove our hoodies and caps, you may keep your head-covering on, which is quite prejudiced.

 

I don't claim to be represented by any undemocratically elected leaders any more than you do. Like I said in my previous post, anyone who expects the government to work with an Islamic mindframe, whilst living in a secular western society is just plain foolish. I certainly don't live my life expecting any handouts or favours from anyone. That includes getting "seperate holidays just for us". I'm sure you're aware that there isn't any law which legislates for Muslim holidays therefore when I do want to take my 2 days off (every year) it is out of my own holiday time which I am entitled to spend as I please.

 

Regarding hoodies. I don't believe in banning people from wearing hoodies or caps, as I think it is completely unecessary and a form of collective punishment (injustice). Just because some teenagers who wear hoodies are thugs it doesn't mean that everyone who chooses that particular attire subscribes to the same thuggery.

 

Nevertheless, I think that comparing a headcovering (which I believe is an obligation for me to wear out of love and obedience to my Creator), or a sikh gentleman wearing a turban, or a jewish gentleman wearing a scullcap, to a teenager wearing a hoody is an inaccurate parallel. My headscarf doesn't inflict any harm on anyone,a nd there are absolutely no plausible reasons for me being asked to remove it. I'm quite happy to say that in th UK I have never been told to do such a degrading thing, and for that I am thankful. I can think of some friends on the other side of the English Channel who would welsome such open-mindedness.

 

I don't have a major problem with Islam, but slowly but surely I think Islam is becoming less and less popular, and unfortunately - it is for you to deal with. We constantly hear about how our government is (wasting money) in reaching out to greet muslims, but muslims don't seem to reach out to us. This may just be because of the media but I personally can't see it. Also, statements such as "We want to see the flags of Islam fly over downing street" are quite offensive when at the same time you are seen to demand that we cannot fly our England flags at the time of the world cup on the grounds that it is offensive (reminders of the crusade) (note: England as a football team- flag OK!) .

 

Islam is becoming less and less popular, certainly in the media, but I wouldn't say I have noticed this on the street apart from some mindless little boys who think it is funny and witty to call me a "P**i terrorist" even though I'm neither one nor the other. I feel pity for people who go out of their way to try and hurt me because of what they've heard some 'muslim looking guy do on the tele', and it really doesn't irk me in any way. Bearing that in mind, most people I come across are very pleasant and ask questions about Islam in a very respectful manner, which I don't mind answering at all :D

 

You guys have serious PR to do :D Not a lot of us will join forums like this to get a true scope of Islam.

 

I actually would like to respectfully disagree. Whilst a small minority of loud-mouthed media-hungry muslims do a dis-service to our beautiful religion (May Allah forgive them and us all) most of us get on with our lives and are model citizens and neighbours and are getting on very well, despite all the pressures that have been placed on our community's shoulders. In our religion we are tought that no soul bears the burden of another soul, so as long as I continue being the best Muslim and by extension the best human being I can be, that is all I can do. Call that good PR or whatever. Also, you'll be surprised at the number of non-muslims, like yourself, who have found themselves drawn to this and other Islamic forums, in recent years. People certainly weren't this bothered about Islam or Muslims ten years ago.

 

All praise to Allah for guiding them and us.

 

With peace.

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Thank you for replying so quickly, Emel :D You highlighted many points which I agree with but you must understand they're not really my opinions (alright, most of the time, I'll be honest) when I say things like "you should remove head-dresses" I say what other people are saying to me. Mind you, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, so I feel that either EVERYONE should "take their hats off to crime" or no one does. :D Fair. Likewise, it is just as degrading for me to be stereotyped as a theif and being asked to remove my hoodie (when I wear it with the hood up of course) just as much as it would be for you to be asked to remove the head covering.

 

I notice on rereading my post I say:

 

 

"We constantly hear about how our government is (wasting money) in reaching out to greet muslims, but muslims don't seem to reach out to us"

 

this poorly represents what I was trying to say, I was more trying to say things like the Muslim council and things being consulted every 5 minutes as the waste of money. Not particularly including everyone or welcome those from abroad (I don't assume you've immigrated by the way).

 

I am pleased you notice a lot of people going out to seek information about Islam, I unfortunately do not. They either don't care, or don't want to care and wish to stereotype. I find this mostly in my family or those older than me and set in their ways.

 

The point of my post is- try and take a look from our view, and how we are being shown it. I personally and respectfully find it irrelevant about what Allah says about no one burdens the soul of another, because that won't help you. It won't stop you being called a "Paki terrorist" (it took me a while to figure out what was behind the stars, I prefer a frank approach) and it won't stop the Muslim community being alienated in a nation that they are an equal part of. So their burden will become your burden if you lot, as I said before, don't do a bit of PR and make it very obvious that you are just as appalled and sickened (as I've seen that you are here) by terrorism.

 

To the post immediately after mine, you seem to have it right on the nail. Animosity is growing, and I think that as much as it seems unfair on Muslims to all be blamed for the acts of a few... you really need to make it obvious you are different. I seem to be some of the few in the people I talk about Islam with that will advocate it. Maybe where I live is just like that, but certainly over the last ten years patience has run out (and I have found myself like that a few times... luckily I've had the opportunity to come here and came to my senses).

 

Peace to you also :D

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Peace,

 

It is refreshing to hear your point of view and it's good that we can discuss things whilst remaining civil to eachother. I welcome interesting dialogue.

 

I do take your point about looking at things from your perspective,and it may surprise you, but I often do, because I live in an area where my family are the only muslims so I've been brought up to respect differing viewpoints.

 

When you say that you find it irrelavant what Allah says, I can see where you are coming from as a non-muslim. But I just can't do that, it just goes against everything I believe in.

 

Regarding the quote about no soul bearing the burden of another, it is extremely relevant for me, because whilst it is depressing to see the state of muslims at the moment, I gain comfort from the fact that as long as I behave in a decent way towards all people in my society, and I try to understand my religion in the correct way and share the correct behaviour that my religion sanctions, then I can face my judgment with God knowing I've done my level best.

 

I live in Britain and this is my home. So when I see what is happening it hurts and angers me too. I don't want to see a fellow muslim spouting hatred on my behalf, the same as I don't want Tony Blair launching wars in my name. It breaks my heart to see the reputation of my religion and my beloved Prophet (pbuh) being dragged through the gutters because of the misunderstandings of some, and the ignorant actions of others.

 

We as a Muslim community are to blame to a certain extent for the way our religion is portrayed and the emphasis is on us to do our level best to change that. I engage with non-muslims in my community on a daily basis and I'm not shy with my thoughts when I'm explaining how the guy they saw on newsnight is certainly not representative of the muslim majority, but is infact playing the media like fools for as much exposure as he can get to spout his twisted agenda.

 

Ultimately I think work needs to be done on both sides to repair the huge chasm that has been left as a result of recent events.

 

With peace.

 

Emel

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I too am glad that we can talk frankly :D I'm certain most muslims do engage with non muslims on a generally regular basis (be it for work or for social gatherings, it's almost impossible not to in this country) but I mean that Allah is irrelevant in this not to disrespect your god (mainly because I feel that nothing I can ever say will ever change the opinion of any muslim on Allah) but simply to say- surely you could go to your god on the day of judgement and say to him:

 

"You will know this, but just in case you've got a bit too much on your mind to have it in the focus of mind: I tried my level best not only to live in the way you've asked me to, but I've also tried to bring the world to an understanding of us and thus left others to follow the way in peace"

 

If I was Allah, I'd be damn impressed. :D

 

I live in Britain and this is my home. So when I see what is happening it hurts and angers me too. I don't want to see a fellow muslim spouting hatred on my behalf, the same as I don't want Tony Blair launching wars in my name. It breaks my heart to see the reputation of my religion and my beloved Prophet (pbuh) being dragged through the gutters because of the misunderstandings of some, and the ignorant actions of others.

 

I am glad you feel at home here, it is your right to do so. Referring to an earlier post about you being accused of things because of your religion, I can relate to that. I've been spat on for my religion. But going back on topic. we neither want wars launched in our name either... we are being dragged into the same place as the US here.

 

Ultimately I think work needs to be done on both sides to repair the huge chasm that has been left as a result of recent events

 

I wasn't trying to say that it was solely you (as a muslim community) who could solve this problem, I was merely saying that you need to do PR to boost the image of Islam so that some of the inhabitants of the UK feel less prejudiced and scared by Islam so we can bridge the gap- I just feel it is only the muslim community that can instigate this kind of relationship... as the media (biased or unbiased as you view it) seems to portray muslims as a sort of secret cult type thing until something annoys them and then suddenly bang all hell lets loose.

 

Again, returning the wishes.

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Salam

 

talk out about going off topic

 

Anywho, I am British, well almost, I do enjoy the British simple pleasures; tea, biscuits, conservatory's. I complain about the cold and wait for the summer, yet when the summer arrives I long for the cold. I blame the government for not doing enough of something I do not really know about, though I do like parliment...I found it all quite humerous, parliment is quite entertaining and is quite harmless.

 

:D

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salam

 

YAY! this thread is back in action, i was like :D what do i talk about...

 

oh yeah, tell me about it- COLD WEATHER is major annoying if you have to walk miles outdoors with a bad cough and sneeze, but it's NICE when you can stay warm indoors :D

 

I love the summer in england, especially the recent one during the world cup 2006- it was BOILING, but by august it wasn't as good but oh well, it's british weather, what do you expect :D

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Salam

 

talk out about going off topic

 

Anywho, I am British, well almost, I do enjoy the British simple pleasures; tea, biscuits, conservatory's. I complain about the cold and wait for the summer, yet when the summer arrives I long for the cold. I blame the government for not doing enough of something I do not really know about, though I do like parliment...I found it all quite humerous, parliment is quite entertaining and is quite harmless.

 

:D

 

:D

 

All too true.

 

We can discuss weather forever!

 

I hope we will through time develope our own indigenous Muslim voice and not just some echos of that from other countries.

 

I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, it was not meant to be, we are all brothers and sisters whatever our ethnic origin and whether we like it or not.

 

:D

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Peace,

 

Anyway... why aren't the England, Scotland and Wales (and maybe Northern Ireland) topics merged for correctness?

 

I'm (kinda) to blame. Years ago when I looked for the "Islam in Britain" thread there was only an "Islam in England" thread. Not being English I wasn't going to let the side down and post in there so I started the Islam in Scotland section.

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I personally think England is the worst place for a follower of Islam to be in. ..Ofcourse I will back up what I say.

 

For example, I know some females who are supposed to be wearing the hijab, however, because it is not considered "normal" by the majority of pepople they don't feel comfortable doing so. I even knew someone who secretly took off her hijab after arriving at school. This is all because people here are not educated in religion, they are clueless. They see something that doesn't seem normal to them, and because they do not understand it right away they consider the person to be "different".

 

In England we are surrounded by females wearing short skirts revealing themselves to the world.. showing their chests to every person passing by. We have males eyes opene wide, leering at females backsides. Males "touching up" females. This is not Islam.

 

We all know people who are getting drunk, doing drugs, "sleeping around". Advertisements in the streets, on the TV, Magazines are even going against our religion!

 

I wasn't brought up as a Muslim. I wasn't shown the ways, and because I was blind to see these things. Only now do I realise how much of a bad place this is for Muslims to be. Being "religious" is harder here then it is in other countries. People being uneducated has alot to do with this.

 

England is probably one of the worst places to be Muslim - in my opinion.

 

If you don't agree with me, please feel free to express your view on what I have said :D

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Also, the media is another bunch of rubbish going against us. Making us look bad.

 

(If someone could tell me how to edit previous posts that would be really good - instead I have had to post another reply)

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Assalamu Alaykum everyone,

 

I've introduced myself before, I'm a Muslim journalist in England. :D

 

I'm writing a story on Gordon Brown's latest comments that if he became prime minister his top priority would be fighting terrorism, this means tapping phone calls, extending the 28 day period for questioning suspects, allowing the police to question suspects after they have been charged, a ban on people covering their faces and burning flags at demonstrations.

 

Do you think this is bad news for Muslims in Britain? If so, why? What effect you think this will have on the average, law abiding Muslim in Britain? Do you think Gordon Brown's plans will further ailenate innocent Muslims in Britain since they are being pin-pointed as the problems of society that Brown will tackle if he becomes pm?

 

I would be grateful if you (Muslims and non-Muslims are welcome) could give me a brief quote so I could include it in my article as soon as possible,

 

I look forward to your replies,

Nouran

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Alaykum salaam sister,

 

I think that banning people from covering their faces in demonstrations is wrong. Firstly, demonstrators may want to demonstrate without being harassed by the police.. But more importantly how can Muslims who wear burkas get around this? I don't see how tapping phone calls will effect the innocent Muslims however it is an invasion of privacy in my opinion.

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To be honest it's a shame it got to this. However people demonstrating in a non-Islamic manner are to blame. Islam isn't about burning flags and spreading hate. Islam is about spreading peace.

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Dear Righteous,

Assalamu Alaykum and thank you for your reply, jazak Allah kheyran! Would you feel comfortable giving me a name, age and where you're from in the UK (via pm if you wish)? As we need to put those details after the person's quotes. If you don't want to give me a real name, you coudl give me a pen-name.

Jazak Allah Kheyran and look forward to more replies,

Nouran

:D

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No problem sister.

 

Name : Mehmet Kadir

Age : 16

Location: London

 

Could I ask what article this is for also? :D

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Assalamu alaykum wr nouran and the others

wow interetsing position you have.

 

I believe that it is a violation of our rights and that Brown is tackling this whole terrorist issue from the wrong perspective, giving the impression that only muslims are capable of such appauling behaviour. His commens are always related to our scoeity, i mean where does he propse to get the money from for his activities? Us tax payers of course right?

Its going to make life difficult for us muslims in Britain, will continue my points tomorrow insha'Allah

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