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atheist101

Darwins’theory Of Evolution:

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as salaam alaikum,

 

are you serious? :D when did he show that? when did he say how life was created? I think you are talking about another person

 

wa alaikum salaam

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:D

he teorized, people. nothing was shown, neways y would i hate him or like him? i dont even know him on a personal level!

i just dont like his opinions ("theories") thats all.

:D

Edited by Mohammad ibn Naeem

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Salam!

 

I neither love nor hate him. I think he personally never claimed that his theory proved that god doesn't exist. It was others who took the opportunity to deny the existence of god. In his death bed he probably believed in the existence of a creator.

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Sorry, Atheist101

 

If you want people to keep "pleasant" posts, the invitation "love him or HATE him" does not seem adequate or the best wording.

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peace

 

i have great doubt in his theories, and i also believe that why his motives need to be brought into question, im sure youve heard about the rebellion against the church. That is probably why i dont think he is a genius, nevertheless i think there are plenty more people out there who are the real geniuses.

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the theory going to remain a theory until it's proven beyond reasonable doubt that man originate from ape

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the theory going to remain a theory until it's proven beyond reasonable doubt that man originate from ape

 

i mean for everything in this world nowadays everything has to get science's approval to be officallly recognised, why? why dont people have faith?

Edited by Lateralus63

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i dont consider him as a good scientist becuase he has bad credentials.

he failed med school and several other scince related subjects.

but i do think his a genius to have given godless people hope that there is no god.

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i mean for everything in this world nowadays everything has to get science's approval to be officallly recognised, why? why dont people have faith?

:D

Salamu Alaikum brother,

 

Just wanted to add something here so that our atheists visitors don't get the wrong idea when talking about faith. Though I know what you mean by that statement :D

 

The concept of faith in Islam is very different from other religions. You don't need to have only faith to believe in the existence of god. We as muslims are encouraged to think about our faith which in Islam means you looked at it and confirmed it; yes it makes sense I've accepted it now. It's something that you have to reflect on it. In fact the Quran encourages us to look out to the world and look inside ourselves and we'd come to know the truth. So faith in god does not come blindly. It is confirmation.

 

Wasslam!

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:D

I do not hate him, since i dont know him. However, i think his theory is just a pile of crap.

 

But no, he is not a genious, how can any1 call him a genius? He didnt even finish his bilogy education! Beside his theory is unbelievably illogical

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Peace.

 

What's illogical about it?

 

I've never understood why people draw the conclusion that if evolution is true, God must not exist. It doesn't follow.

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Man came from Adam, who was created by the Creator as a man, not an animal. That is who we come from, not apes. Adam did not resemble an ape or any other animal in any way, he was as human as we are today (well, a little different. He had a much longer lifespan!). Perhaps in other faiths it's possible to accomodate the theory of humans evolving from apes, but not in Islam.

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Peace.

 

Not believing it because you believe about Adam doesn't display any illogic in the theory.

 

Darwin didn't mention apes at all, that I recall.

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it doesnt say we came from apes, it's the idea taht we are cousins the DNA is 99,6 percent similar.... the basic idea is survival of the fittest and they have proven how animals have changed the way they look, they way they adapt. Ex. They can prove many clades between animals. A famous one is the whale/hippo clade where they are seen as cousins and actually came from the same species but diverged as the climate/region changed. Basic mutations are occuring all the timebetween species. The idea that god exist or doesn't exists, we can't PROVE that, we'll find out when we die, but there is evidence (strong) supporting different species clades. I have a question, maybe this should go into another thread, in the three books that beleive in Adam/Eve when were they creatred? Humans have not been on earth for a long time, about 50 thousand years? The earth itself has been proven to be about 4-5 billion years old. Why the huge gap? Are dinosaurs, prehistoric animals, non existant now, are they mentioned? Is evolution a taboo subject? Man... i have so many questions that are popping up in my head, buti want to try to stick on subject here... thanks

Edited by curiousbud

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Salam brothers

 

I think like you Kale, when you say

 

"I've never understood why people draw the conclusion that if evolution is true, God must not exist. It doesn't follow."

 

I think the same. Four hundred years ago, Galileo said "The earth moves around the sun" because he had evidence, and christians said, "that is impossible because the bible says the opposite", and they nearly burned him. It has taken for the Catholic Church 400 years to say, "Sorry, we made a mistake".

 

They interpreted the bible wrong and thought that the bible said something it does not say. Many christians and Muslims still do not believe in evolution because they wrongly think the Bible and the Quran say that there is no evolution.

 

But the Bible begins describing evolution along the six "days" of creation. The "days" are simply a bad translation for "stages" of evolution. People take the bible literally, it cannot be in six days, we know from science that the "six day" process took really millions of years. But people prefer to believe their literal interpretations than common sense. Like the Irish bishop who calculated the time of Adam and Eve based on the genealogy written in the bible and concluded that creation took place 4000 years ago. I wonder how long ago do Muslims think Adam and Eve lived.

 

Another example. After making creation God "rested". This cannot be literally true, God cannot get tired. So we see that many things in the Bible and in the Quran are symbolic, the problem is that a symbol may represent anything you want it to represent, and I have read really weird interpretations among the many different christian beliefs.

 

Or when the bible says that God made man from "sand". I learned it in Spanish, "tierra", which may mean "sand" but also "mud" or "clay", so people think that God formed Adam like a sculpture made of clay by an artist, but it is only a symbol that the physical body of man is made of the same chemical elements the earth is made of. Atheists refuse to believe some interpretations which are clearly illogical, and they are illogical not only for atheists, but also for other believers who do not do literal interpretations.

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At the time to my knowledge Darwin didn't know about DNA , he saw similar characteristics and made his theory. May be if he was living now he would have changed his mind. What is illogical to me is that we all came from the same organism or a few. I think evolution does exist but not in the manner that Darwin described it isn't that drastic no matter the time that passes by. Within the same species we may see evolution, sometimes due to mutations. But it remains a theory that can’t be proven, for no theory can, you can add evidence to support it.

 

Well to me beinf very close to apes in DNA and yet we are different in so many ways, shows the great power of Allah (SWT) :D

 

Also don't compare Darwin to what happened to Galileo there was a difference between the methods they used and the evidence they had.

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one thing is sure we dont look like apes although we can be as hairy as them

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:D

lol, that's one way of putting it. :D

 

however, from wikipedia:

A Darwinian process requires the following conditions:

 

    * Self-replication: Some number of entities must be capable of producing copies of themselves, and those copies must also be capable of reproduction.

    * Variation: There must be a range of different traits in the population of entities, and there must be a mechanism for introducing new variations into the population.

    * Inheritance: There must be a way to combine the different variations in producing new individuals.

    * Selection: Inherited traits must somehow affect the ability of the entities to reproduce themselves, either by survival, or natural selection, or by ability to produce offspring by finding partners, or sexual selection.

 

Darwinism asserts that any system given these four conditions, by whatever means, evolution is likely to occur. That is, over time, the entities will accumulate complex traits that favor their reproduction.

 

true, he did say:

The Simiadae then branched off into two great stems, the New World and Old World monkeys; and from the latter, at a remote period, Man, the wonder and glory of the Universe, proceeded

 

but it was the 1800's. people were saying crazy stuff all the time, heaps of scientists had their work discredited during that time. yet he wasn't the only one to say what he said. he kept his writings locked away for years until hearing of alfred russel wallace's almost identical theories.

 

may have caused a stir, but there is evidence to back him up. makes for interesting stuff.

Edited by flutterby

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Salam brothers,

 

Excuse me but I still do not understand how Muslims and Christians understand nowadays how the universe was made. How do you interpret the following?

 

God made the world in six days. Does it mean one week? Were they like our days?

 

When did Adam and Eve live, aproximately, 5.000, 50.000, 500.000 thousand years ago?

 

Thank you for your explanations

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Peace

God made the world in six days. Does it mean one week? Were they like our days?

No Islamic creation story is different. Universe was created in six periods , not days. Arabic term used in Quran is ayam (means period) not yaum (means day)

 

Can a christian plz describe bible's creation story?

Edited by MuslimBro

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Peace, MuslimBro.

 

Sure. This is the very first page of the Christian Bible, the first chapter of the book of Genesis.

 

In the beginning, God created heaven and earth. Now the earth was a formless void, there was darkness over the deep, with a divine wind sweeping over the waters.

 

God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw that light was good, and God divided light from darkness. God called light 'day' and darkness he called 'night.' Evening came and morning came: the first day.

 

God said, "Let their be a vault through the middle of the waters to divide the waters in two. And so it was. God made the vault, and it divided the waters under the vault from the waters above the vault. God called the vault 'heaven.' Evening came and morning came: the second day.

 

God said, "Let the waters under heaven come together into a single mass, and let dry land appear." And so it was. God called the dry land 'earth' and the mass of waters 'seas,' and God saw that it was good.

 

God said, "Let the earth produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants, and fruit trees on earth, bearing fruit with their seed inside, each corresponding to its own species." And so it was. The earth produced vegetation: the various kinds of seed-bearing plants and the fruit trees with seed inside, each corresponding to its own species. God saw that it was good. Evening came and morning came: the third day.

 

God said, "Let their be lights in the vault of heaven to divide day from night, and let them indicate festivals, days and years. Let them be lights in the vault of heaven to shine on the earth." And so it was. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, the smaller light to govern the night, and the stars. God set them in the vault of heaven to shine on the earth, to govern the day and the night and to divide light from darkness. God saw that it was good. Evening came and morning came: the fourth day.

 

God said, "Let the waters be alive with a swarm of living creatures, and let birds wing their way above the earth across the vault of heaven." And so it was. God created great sea-monsters and all the creatures that glide and teem in the waters in their own species, and winged birds in their own species. God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the waters of the seas, and let the birds multiply on land." Evening came and morning came: the fifth day.

 

God said, "Let the earth produce every kind of living creature in its own species, cattle, creeping things, and wild animals of all kinds." And so it was. God made wild animals in their own species, and cattle in theirs, and every creature that crawls along the earth in its own species. God saw that it was good.

 

God said, "Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals, and all the creatures that creep along the ground.

 

God created man in the image of himself,

in the image of God he created him

male and female he created them.

 

God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven and all the living creatures that move on earth." God also said, "Look, to you I give all the seed-bearing plants everywhere on the surface of the earth, and all the trees with seed bearing fruit; this will be your food. And to all the wild animals, all the birds of heaven and all the living creatures that creep along the ground, I give all the foliage of the plants as their food." And so it was. God saw all that he had made, and indeed it was very good. Evening came and morning came: the sixth day.

 

(for some obtuse reason, the break between chapter 1 and chapter 2 falls here)

 

Thus heaven and earth were completed in their array. On the seventh day God had completed the work he had been doing. He rested on the seventhday after all the work he had been doing. God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on that day he rested after all his work of creating.

 

Such was the story of heaven and earth as they were created.

 

This is ancient. In some ways its remarkable consistant with science -- scientists believe that once there was but a single enormous land-mass on earth. It's description of the creation of plants is consistant with what is said about the evolution of plants -- vegetative ones came first, then seed-bearing ones, then fruit bearing ones. It seems to me that the scripture has events out of order concerning the creation of the sun. I think this was recorded from somebody who did recieve revealation, but was not told exactly what to say and did what he could to bring the story into language that people of a primative pastoral culture could understand and find memorable.

 

I believe in evolution. Darwin probably was incorrect about certain aspects of how it works, and most people don't seem to really know what Darwin said in the first place. But it is going on demonstrably as we speak. And it is beautiful. The ever-changing creation described by evolution seems to me much more consistant with my understanding of God than the static creation that 'creationists' describe.

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Peace and thx Kale

 

I am sorry but i just dont understand...can u clear up the following points plz:

 

* is bible saying that the light came before the cause of light itself? Light of course comes from stars, such as sun, how can there be light without the sun? Stars and lights were created on fourth day according to the bible.

 

* Earth was created on the third day, so how can u have night and day without the earth? We all know night and day is due to rotation of earth.

 

* Earth was created on the third day but the sun and the moon were created on 4th day? thats unscientific, because the sun is holding the earth by gravity. Without sun, its not possible for earth to stay in its orbit

 

* The vegetations were created on the 3rd day, and the sun was created on 4th day??? How can vegetables survive without sun? That too is unscietific.

 

* God created moon to give light to the earth and created two lights? thats wrong since moon has a reflected light from sun, not its own.

 

* Universe was created in 6 days??? thats not scientific. Universe cannot be created in a 6 days of 24 hour period. Thats not long enough for universe to emerge. Doesn't the bible mention big bang at all?

 

He rested on the seventhday after all the work he had been doing. God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on that day he rested after all his work of creating.

R u telling me god would need to rest? How can god feel fatigue? I am sorry, but i think this is unbeliveably ridiculous. Can u plz explain y would god need to rest? Is his essence same as of a human?

 

I am sorry if i hurt anyone's feeling.

Edited by MuslimBro

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I had forgotten how entertaining the bible could be... :D

 

But as for the question : I love him !!

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