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{sniff} Are You A Zionist?

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Looking at the OP I noticed that it contains this:

 

If you think that those who are firm against zionists are racist, you're a Zionist

 

There may be something to that but I would like to add a clarifying point, and I speak here as someone who is firm against Zionism. We mustn’t assume that just because someone calls an anti-Zionist racist, that means that they qualify. I myself just got finished talking along these lines elsewhere. It happens a lot. I have been noticing recently that very, very often “western” and “Zionist” are just code words, euphemisms, that bigots hide behind so that they don’t have to face the fact that what they really mean is that they hate Americans and Jews. They’re in denial. It’s so obvious. It is anything but rare for those who are firm against Zionists to be racist. And once again I am saying this as somebody who believes for at least three or four different reasons that Zionism is the pits--but I don’t hate it nearly as much as I hate racism.

 

I also must disagree with this statement here:

 

If you believe that zionism is the greatest threat to the future of the US, and humanity itself, you're not a zionist.

 

I have three words for you: THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT. (Yes, many of them support israel too but anyone who lives here knows that this is just about the very least threatening thing about them. And generally very low on their list of priorities as well.)

Edited by IAmZamzam

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Such a confused world ......full of " IFs " and " BUTs " .    No wonder it's such a mess .

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Anyone who understands what Zionism actually is and the books that were originally written on it would be anti-Zionists and fyi there are many Jewish who are anti-Zionist because they know what Zionism is really all about.  Zionism is not a religious doctrine, it is a political racial ideology that closely resembles the words of Hitler.  They teach that those of Jewish blood are a superior race and that Jews deserve a homeland.  The sequel book to be written about Zionism was to teach that the homeland in question should be israel and that it should have the borders of the israel of the Torah.  And this is their goal, this is what they seek to accomplish.  They do not see themselves as a religious people but a superior race that is destined to rule the world.

 

As part of being a political science minor I have to study Zionism extensively under the teachings of a Christian teacher in secular surroundings.  I can tell you even based on what is being taught there Zionism is nothing to favor but the mainstream media does not want the average population to understand what true Zionism is.  Take a look at my icon.  israel is not the ally of the U.S. or anyone but israel.  The powers of israel want israel to be the dominant world power and when that happens everyone is going to be looking back at the comments of those who tried to speak against it. 

 

Remember the U.S.S. Liberty!  When will we make israel accountable not just for the Palestinians that have died under her order but the Americans?

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Indeed , when ?  Possibly when the CIA is held accountable for WHY they placed the Liberty where it was , and explains WHAT it was doing  there .

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Peace upon those who follow the guidance,

 

I keep noticing that a lot of the members in this forum are zionists. Sometimes people are zionists without even realizing it.

So, how can you tell if you really are one?

Here is a few points to help you recognize who you really are. This applies on you regardless of your faith system:

  • If you support the israeli terror state, you're a zionist.
  • If you think that Jews have the right to have their own homeland, by taking away Palestine, ethnically cleanse it from its Palestinian people, you're a zionist.
  • If you think that those who are firm against zionists are racist, you're a zionist.
  • If you think that antisemitism laws are justified, you're a zionist.
  • If you think being a Jew and being a zionist are the same thing, you're a zionist
  • If you're Christian and think that you can't love Jesus unless you love israel, you're a zionist.
On the other hand, here is a list that safely puts you away from the above disgraceful accusation:
  • If you believe that the English politicians and Jews who stolen Palestine should be brought to justice as criminals, and that Palestine should go back to the Palestinians, you're not a zionist.
  • If you believe the Jews have the right to have their own homeland, and you are willing to give away your own country, or part of it, for them to establish it, you're not a zionist.
  • If you believe that being against zionism doesn't mean you're against Jews or Judaism, you're not a zionist.
  • If you believe that zionism has nothing to do with religion, any religion, you're not a zionist.
  • If you believe that zionism is the greatest threat to the future of the US, and humanity itself, you're not a zionist.
  • If you believe that no zionist should ever be allowed anywhere near the white house, US administration, senate or congress, and that AIPAC members should be jailed for treason, you're not a zionist.
  • If you believe that the zionists have managed to brain-wash millions of American Christians into supporting the israeli terror state as part of their faith, you're not a zionist.
Hopefully this would be helpful for your self-evaluation.

 

In this forum, we're good in spotting zionists. They smell, and that helps a lot.

We know they are the masters of deception, but we're not bad ourselves in hunting them down, and trashing them where they belong.

If the above points classifies you as a zionist, then this forum is not for you. if you're a member of this forum, please leave. If you are a guest who didn't register yet, don't bother registering.

Alhamdoulillah I am not a Zionist. Anti Zionist as they scum of the earth. May Allah hasten the destruction of their ldealogy and bring their plans and scheming to failure.

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Which is it ? Are Zionists or anti-Zionists scum of the earth ??

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Which is it ? Are Zionists or anti-Zionists scum of the earth ??

The former

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What does it mean to 'support the israeli terror state'?

 

To recognise israel's right to exist as a country? Or to support it's militaristic activities? Or both. Or either?

 

Salaam,

 

Wahid

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What does it mean to recognize israel's right to exist as a country  ?

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What does it mean to 'support the israeli terror state'?

 

To recognise israel's right to exist as a country? Or to support it's militaristic activities? Or both. Or either?

 

Salaam,

 

Wahid

israel is a terror state that was built on terror, by terrorist groups, develops and extends by terror, and thrives on terror. Consequently, both terms, "israel" and "terror state" are synonyms.

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What does it mean to 'support the israeli terror state'?

 

To recognise israel's right to exist as a country? Or to support it's militaristic activities? Or both. Or either?

 

Salaam,

 

Wahid

 

israel is a terror state that was built on terror, by terrorist groups, develops and extends by terror, and thrives on terror. Consequently, both terms, "israel" and "terror state" are synonyms.

 

What does it mean to recognize israel's right to exist as a country  ?

 

It means you're a terrorist who supports crimes against humanity. Are you one of those? Think carefully before you reply, and while at it, read our forum rules.

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Hey Dot , I don't adopt your politics , nor religious beliefs . I look at the reality of the situation in the Middle East . The middle east and the conflict between Palestinians and israel is not my problem . I'm not a terrorist - ARE YOU ?  Nor do I support crimes against humanity , DO YOU ?

 Have I expressed favor for being a terrorist or  for crimes against humanity ?  I do not hate anyone , do you ? 

 

I'll tell you what I believe , indeed  what I predict for the conflict - it will not end and neither side will win . There will be no peace .

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aligarr:

I'll tell you what I believe , indeed  what I predict for the conflict - it will not end and neither side will win . There will be no peace .

Depends on how you interpret the term "win".

 

For a Muslim, the ultimate winning is acheiving the pleasure of God in this world and paradise in eternity - even if they suffer.

most of us like to see victory of faith over unfaith in this world as well as luxury in eternity - and Allah also knows this and He offers it knowing it's something we love, with the condition that we strive, as explained in surah Al-Saff ch61.

 

And if we can get those who have been conditioned into hating the truth to see the light, and save them as well as ourselves from hellfire

And achieve paradise then it's a win win situation :)

 

It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the true way of life to manifest it over all ways of life. And sufficient is Allah as Witness.

(Quran 48:28)

 

It is He who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the true way of life to manifest it over all ways of life, although they who associate others with Allah hate it.

Quran 9:33

 

Allah has decreed: "It is I and My messengers who must prevail".

For Allah is One full of strength, able to enforce His Will.

(Quran 58:21)

 

"When Allah said:

"O Jesus, I will take you back and raise you up to Me, and purify you of those who commit kufr.

And I will place the people who follow you above those who are kuffar until the Day of Resurrection.

Then you will all return to Me, and I will judge between you regarding the things about which you differed.

(Qur'an, 3:55)

 

And peace be to those who follow the guidance of Allah.

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No abz2000  , it's not a matter of interpretation . I am talking about the corporeal realm , the realm of flesh and blood . In a spiritual sense , you are free to believe whatever you prefer . In this life , in your lifetime , there will be no peace between the two in this conflict .

 What goes on after you die , is a matter of religious belief .  There will be no winners here on this earth , in this conflict .

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There will be no winners here on this earth , in this conflict .

 

Thanks for your deep insight, Aligar.

 

What's good about this forum is that it provides a place for random voiceless souls to express their hopelessness.

 

Salam

 

Yasnov

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 aligar:

I am talking about the corporeal realm the realm of flesh and blood . In a spiritual sense you are free to believe whatever you prefer

When u combine word of God, and spirit from God, the work of Jesus is manifested in the flesh and blood!

Surely you'll believe then? In the corporeal realm......

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Does it look to you like the work of Jesus is being manifested in this world ? In the israel/Palestine conflict ?  I think not . By either side .

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I read the book My Enemy, Myself by the israeli journalist Yoram Binur, about 20 years ago. It made powerful case for the concept that discrimination, and human rights abuses in israel, against Palestinians, created the Palestinian resistance groups.

 

It changed my view of israel.

 

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1989-04-02/features/8901170766_1_yoram-binur-territories-palestinian

 

israeli Journalist Switches Identities To Uncover Abuses

 

April 2, 1989

 

By GREGORY KATZ, Senior Correspondent

 

Yoram Binur, 34, an israeli journalist fluent in Arabic, went underground for six months to document the abuses suffered by Palestinians living in israel`s occupied territories. He surfaced with a book predicting grave trouble for his country, but events moved ahead of his publication schedule.

 

The intifada, the Palestinian uprising that has left hundreds dead and threatened israel`s ability to govern the occupied territories, erupted while Binur was still writing My Enemy, My Self, his harrowing tale of how the israeli establishment humiliates the Palestinians.

 

Unlike political essays, his book is uncomfortably personal. The reader suffers with Binur, a former lieutenant in the israeli Defense Forces, as he is beaten solely for ``being`` a Palestinian at a right-wing Jewish rally.

 

The reader experiences his fear at roadblocks and comes to admire the Palestinians who protest with dignity against their second-class status. Perhaps most painful, the reader experiences the hatred he feels for his Jewish employers, who give him backbreaking tasks, filthy accommodations and pitiful wages.

 

He takes readers into the sweatshops where self-respect is the first casualty and into the camps where sanitation is unfit for humans and there is constant fear of police raids.

 

The impact is undeniable and offers a clear explanation for the Palestinian revolt, a development so serious that classified israeli intelligence reports suggest it will force israel to negotiate with the hated Palestine Liberation Organization.

 

A talk with Binur is even more sobering. He holds that the future of israeli democracy is at stake -- as a natural outgrowth of the decision to hold the territories seized in 1967.

 

``I don`t believe israelis are racist or hateful to Arabs, they just ran into a situation dictated by the occupation and they behave accordingly,`` said Binur, who concedes that he, too, considers Arabs as israel`s enemies.

 

``If you respect them and their rights to freedom and independence, you have a problem, but if you just ignore it, you fall into a greater risk and this is the reason I wrote the book, because I feel the biggest risk is just around the corner and no one paid attention. israel will not be a democracy anymore. You cannot apply a dictatorship to Palestinian camps five minutes from Jerusalem, as we do now, and keep a democracy,`` Binur said.

 

The constant switching back and forth between his real identity and his adopted persona took its toll on Binur. It was hard for a Jew to feel hatred for his own people -- but he did.

 

``My whole emotional situation was very complicated,`` he said, citing a rally where he was roughed up by israeli soldiers.

 

``I felt very much like a Palestinian at the time and I was very frightened and filled with hate, as anyone harassed by police for no reason would be. But I had commanded troops like that. They were just kids. I knew what they were feeling. I was a pain in their neck and I knew they just wanted to finish their shift and get away from the demonstration and get to Jerusalem and chase some girls. I could feel that, too. I could feel both sides, and it`s much easier to simply hate than to feel the whole picture.``

 

His transformation from Jew to Arab was risky. He changed his appearance, smoked a brand of cigarettes favored by Arabs and scorned by Jews, and wore the traditional red keffiyeh headdress, but he still had reason to think he would be killed if his ruse were discovered -- because the Palestinians would not believe that he was a journalist and would assume he was a police infiltrator.

 

There was a special risk too; Binur talks in his sleep when he is tense, and he feared he would talk in Hebrew while dozing in a squalid dormitory with other Palestinian workers.

 

``First I spoke Arabic all day long, then I started to think in Arabic, then I started to dream in Arabic,`` he said.

 

``I forced myself. It was hard because I was scared all the time, both from the israelis and from the Palestinians. When it was over, I felt very bad. I was in bed surrounded by bottles of cheap brandy and a lot of cigarettes. I didn`t want to talk to people for about a month and I felt no one could understand what I was going through, and very, very slowly I recovered. It`s very hard for you to feel this guilt -- for me it was the guilt of being israeli and being responsible for a lot of evil and at the same time knowing these are your enemies.

 

After experiencing the problem first-hand, Binur has come out in favor of the creation of a separate Palestinian state, a position sharply rejected by the israeli government. Binur conceded that there are risks to this proposition.

 

Will it be dangerous? Might be. Personally, I think peace is more promising. We could have done it 10 years ago on more favorable terms and been seen as the savior of the Palestinian people. I personally think it would work, but there is no guarantee. The alternative is war, and israeli security reports suggest there would be 15,000 to 20,000 israeli casualties on the Syrian front alone if a war fires up.``

 

In israel, critics have charged that Binur is giving ammunition to the enemy by detailing human rights abuses.

 

His patriotism has been challenged, but Binur claims his interest was not promotion of the Palestinian cause. ``I didn`t write the book because I care about the Palestinians,`` he said.

 

``I have great respect for them, but they have people to care about their own. I care about the israelis.``

 

During his tour of the United States, he has spoken in many synagogues. He expected a harsh reaction but has found some sympathy as well.

 

``The general drift I am getting is that American Jewish people, some of them at least, are painfully aware, and they are in a very healthy stage of waking up and seeing that israel is a country like every other country, that it is not a dream,`` Binur said.

 

``It is very special for them, but it is not a place you can back all the time and never criticize.``

Edited by Gnosis

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I hate israel, too, but the way I see it, everything happens for a reason, and with tensions brewing around Cyprus, I hope Egypt and israeli military invade Turkey for what they did (Erodgan's regime, the biggest zionist, which has seen trade with israel increase tenfold under his regime and israeli commandos train to kill gazans on his soil) to my people (I'm Turkish btw). 

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and by my people, i am not referring to palestinians, i am referring to a certain group of groups of oppressed turks.......

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Nevermind, I take it back, those groups might be misguided, and israel is evil and should not be used as a means to an end and Egypt is a mere puppet. 

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