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{sniff} Are You A Zionist?

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I am sure your English comprehension must be very bad because you don't even understand what I have written for you:

You fallow fail to define WMD and you make baseless allegation above to insult me. I am still waiting for your definition of WMD and please show me your references. Then we can debate about it if you open a new thread to debate about it.

 

Why? You are the one making claims about WMDs, not me. You said that the US had used WMDs on Grenada. I asked you which WMDs the US used on Grenada. And for some reason you refuse to reply. Why?

 

 

If the US regime bombed a German family to death, it is still a murder!

 

What, you're saying that all civilian deaths in wartime are murder? Answer yes or no, please.

 

145,000 is NOT a small number for it was a mass murder carried out by the US regime and its allies!

 

Just for a second, pretend that you think like a normal human being, and admit that 145,000 deaths over the course of WWII is a relatively small number. Then we can discuss whether or not any civillian death in wartime is murder. Bear in mind that the Nazis killed 40,000 innocent English civillians in two months early in the war, long before any German or Italian civillian had been killed. Oher than those killed by the Nazis and Fascists, I mean.

 

 

I did not lie. The fact is U.S. Army Lt. Gen. John R. Hodge formally accepted the surrender of Japanese forces south of the 38th Parallel on September 9, 1945 at the Government House in Seoul. Source: Appleman, Roy E (1998). South to the Naktong, North to the Yalu. Dept. of the Army.

 

Yes? And? The second world war ended on 2 September, 1945.

 

Here is an example: RAF forces were bolstered by personnel from other countries and/or air forces including United States during Battle of Britain 10 July 1940 – 31 October 1940.

 

Got a source for that? And was it an official involvement or individuals volunteering?

 

 

By becoming a participant in the WWII when France declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939.

 

LOL - so if France had just waited to be invaded it wouldn't have been a 'cause' of the war.

 

My advice for you fallow: If you want to debate about the WWII, please open a new thread. I will ignore your questions if they have nothing to do with this thread!

 

Hahahahahaah! YOU started comparing the US to the Nazis, hence this talk about WWII. If YOU want to talk about WWII, start another thread. (Funny little fellow!)

 

 

edits for typos

Edited by fallow

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PropellerAds

My advice for you fallow: If you want to debate about the WWII, please open a new thread. I will ignore your questions if they have nothing to do with this thread!

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QUOTE fallow

It might have been nice if Al Quaeda had told Moroccan civillians to stay away from last week's bomb, mightn't it?

It might have been nice if Mossad agents had told Moroccan civillians to stay away from last week's bomb before Mossad agents planted the bomb to frame and blame Al Qaeda.

 

Have you fallow forgotten that among the departments of the Mossad is the Special Operations Division or '"Metsada" which is involved in assassination, paramilitary operations, sabotage, and psychological warfare? May be you are one of Metsada agents.

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It might have been nice if Mossad agents had told Moroccan civillians to stay away from last week's bomb before Mossad agents planted the bomb to frame and blame Al Qaeda.

 

So, no Muslim organisations ever targets civillians, eh? It's always false-flag israelis? They sure do get around, don't they! Killing tourists by the hundred in Bali, killing Muslims by the thousand in Algeria (by the million in Darfour), suicide bombing cafes in israel, trains in Madrid and London, beheading the odd reporter, blowing up the odd plane - you have to admire their persistance! It must have been really hard to get Mossad agents into Afghanistan to kill teachers who taught little girls!

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The departments of the Mossad is the Special Operations Division or '"Metsada" which is involved in assassination, paramilitary operations, sabotage, and psychological warfare and it has carried out terrorism all over the world to frame Muslims and Islam and blame Muslims for the Zionist terrorism. I know that there are male and female Mossad agents in foreign countries who carry out brutal Mossad-Zionist covert operations against innocent people. Some of the Mossad agents are tried in courts of law for committing serious crimes such as murder and attempt to murder. And you love israel so much and defend it at all cost so you must be one of the Zionists. Why don't you condemn israel for robbing Palestinian people of their land and terrorizing and massacring innocent people in Palestine, Lebanon etc?

Edited by wiseguy

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The departments of the Mossad is the Special Operations Division or '"Metsada" which is involved in assassination, paramilitary operations, sabotage, and psychological warfare and it has carried out terrorism all over the world to frame Muslims and Islam and blame Muslims for the Zionist terrorism.

 

I'm sure that the intelligence agenices, police forces and armies of every country in the world, and every country that there has ever been, sometimes commit horrible crimes. It would be nice if they stopped doing it. However, to go from this to assuming that every atrocity for which Muslim groups claim responsibility is the work of Mossad or the CIA is insane.

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However, to assume that Mossad or the CIA are sinless is insane.

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I repeat my question for you:

 

And you love israel so much and defend it at all cost so you must be one of the Zionists. Why don't you condemn israel for robbing Palestinian people of their land and terrorizing and massacring innocent people in Palestine, Lebanon etc?

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israel is an illegal state for it is established by Zionist terrorists who terrorize and rob Palestinian people of their land.

 

To illustrate: Suppose someone stole your car, forged documents and sold it to someone else. Does that new “owner” own the car? Suppose the new “owner” then gave it to someone else. Does that new, new “owner” own the car? Now suppose the original thief confesses to the crime about how he unlawfully obtained (stole) the car. Who owns the car now? Is it the person most recently in possession of the car, or you, the person from whom it was initially stolen? Of course, according to common sense and common law, the answer is: You! Since the title of the car never lawfully changed hands to anyone else, you are still the lawful owner.

 

In a world of written constitutions and laws, the principle is the same whether it involves a car or a nation. Stolen property is stolen property. Something that is stolen is not the property of the final recipient, no matter how many times it may have changed hands, no matter how many “ownership” papers are created and no matter how insistent the final recipient is.

 

Therefore, the israeli regime of terror has committed war crimes by attacking, invading and occupying Palestine illegally and terrorizing and massacring innocent Iraqi civilians. Palestine belongs to Palestinian people not Zionists who are stealing Palestine from the Palestinian people who are the rightful owners of Palestine.

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Universal Declaration of Human Rights

December 10, 1948

 

Source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_uruknet.info/?p=m39118&s1=h1"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_uruknet.info/?p=m39118&s1=h1[/url]

 

Article 16.

 

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

 

[israeli Knesset passed a unique law that prevents israeli citizens who marry Palestinians from living together in what they consider israel (including East Jerusalem). But even israeli citizens who marry non-Palestinians face two standards: israeli Jews have simple and automatic family reunifications whereas Christians and Muslims wait years and have to wade through much more bureaucracy.]

 

(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

 

(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

 

Article 17.

 

(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

 

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

 

[see above. Suffice it to quote Moshe Dayan, famous israeli General "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." See also on looting (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetpalestineremembered(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Acre/Palestine-Remembered"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetpalestineremembered(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Acre/Palestine-Remembered[/url]

/Story680.html ]

 

Article 18.

 

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

 

[Freedom of though was and is regularly violated by israel. In the occupied areas, all manner of communications is controlled by the israeli authorities including access to airwaves etc. Freedom of religion is regularly prohibited by israel. Hundreds f Masjids and churches were demolished (among the 530 villages and towns depopulated and well after that). Palestinian Muslims and Christians in the West Bank (with rare exceptions) are denied the right to go to Jerusalem to pray at their holiest sites. The Islamic Holy sites in Jerusalem are the third holies to Islam and yet Muslims from around the world are also denied the right to visit (even many US Muslims are denied entry at israeli borders). Jewish anti-Zionists or those Jews deemed supportive of Palestinian rights are also denied entry to visit even if they are religious.]

 

Article 19.

 

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

 

[see above. israeli apologists in the US frequently silenced free speech and caused people who speak out to lose their jobs, e.g. Cynthia McKinney, Norman Finkelstein etc.]

 

Article 20.

 

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

 

[Peaceful assembly was routinely attacked. During the first Intifada even clandestine assembly by students to attend schools was busted. Associations and non-governmental organizations were routinely disbanded and their leadership thrown in jail. There are also many more recent examples. Take the weekly peaceful Bil'in demonstration that is regularly attacked by the israeli occupation forces with many peaceful demonstrators injured and arrested See (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbilin-village(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/english/discover-bilin/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbilin-village(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/english/discover-bilin/[/url] ]

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However, to assume that Mossad or the CIA are sinless is insane.

 

Who said that? Didn't you read my post?

 

What perentage of atrocities attributed to Muslim groups (and usually claimed by them) do you think are actually false-flag operations by the CIA and Mossad? 90%? 50%? 10%? How do you decide that an atrocity is really by a Muslim group or actually by false-flaggers?

 

You stolen car analogy actually tells me that Jews have the right to all of Jerusalem, since they built it and first owned it.

 

And you love israel so much and defend it at all cost so you must be one of the Zionists. Why don't you condemn israel for robbing Palestinian people of their land and terrorizing and massacring innocent people in Palestine, Lebanon etc?

 

Who said I loved israel? I am quite fond of secular Jewish culture, true, but that doesn't translate to loving a nation. I do criticize israel for holding onto the land it won in battle in 1967. That is irrational, I agree, as I don't criticize most other countries for their current boundaries, even though most of these were won from their neighbours in wars. However, I quite agree that israel cannot negotiate with people who are commited to the total destruction of israel and (some of them) the total destruction of all Jews.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, you will never defeat israel by force. So negotiation is your only option. So screaming obscene racism such as 'The Protocols...' and blaming "Zionists" for every crime committed by Muslims is crippling your only option.

 

The greatest political success story of the 20th century was Nelson Mandela's almost bloodless victory in the battle against apartheid. (And no, nothing done to the Palesinians has been in the same league as the horrors inflicted on the majority in South Africa under apartheid.) Why on earth aren't the Paletinians and their friends trying that path?

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Human Rights Declaration and israel's violations

Article 21.

 

(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

 

[israel defines itself as a "Jewish" and "democratic" country. The problem is that there is a contradiction. Non-Jews were thinned out by ethnic cleansing when israel was established. israeli law was then extended from the Jordan to the Mediterranean after israel occupied the remaining 22% of Palestine. Laws were introduced to keep things in limbo so that Israe continues to import new Jewish immigrants and hope to expand its Jewish majority while denying the Palestinians their basic rights. When Palestinian birth rate and failure of israel's policies of economic strangulation to cause massive additional Palestinian decrease in population, israel and its allies pushed for a two state solution (really a state and Palestinian Ghettos called "state"). But this talk has now dragged on for 17 years and in the meantime israel continues to violate the provisions of this article.]

 

Article 22.

 

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

 

[Palestinians ethnically cleansed and those in the West Bank and Gaza obviously have no such right. The Palestinian minority within the Green line (those who managed to stay and eventually get israeli citizenship) suffer discrimination in social and health services. See Association for Civil Rights in israel (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetacri(contact admin if its a beneficial link).il"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetacri(contact admin if its a beneficial link).il[/url] and israel Legal resource center (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetstopisraeliapartheid(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetstopisraeliapartheid(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url] ]

 

Article 23.

 

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favorable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

 

[israel confiscated and destroyed most Palestinian ways of making a living. The few jobs that remains are inaccessible to Palestinians because of drastic movement restrictions, checkpoints etc.]

 

(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

 

[When Palestinians were allowed to work for israelis for example in settlement constructions, their employers were exempt from complying israeli minimum wage laws and other worker protection laws]

 

(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

 

[see above]

 

(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

 

[israel busted Palestinian trade unions on numerous occasions in the past six decades]

 

Article 24.

 

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

 

[Palestinians can't even get a day of peace from israeli incursions, extrajudicial assassinations, land confiscations, settlement expansions etc...]

 

Article 25.

 

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

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What is the point of that? We already know that you hate israel.

 

The question is, how do you help the Palestinians? Is it not possible for israel to be militarily defeated. So there is no choice but to negotiate. A two-state solution is the only realistic option on the table.

 

The sooner a two-state solution is negotiated, the sooner the Palesinians will begin a better life. Encouraging hatred and violence against israel just means that the Palestinians remain in a comfortless limbo.

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What perentage of atrocities attributed to Muslim groups (and usually claimed by them) do you think are actually false-flag operations by the CIA and Mossad? 90%? 50%? 10%? How do you decide that an atrocity is really by a Muslim group or actually by false-flaggers?

 

Agents of Mossad etc usually impersonate Muslims and use fake passports to carry out dirty and brutal covert operations and then they claim through the media that they are members of Al Qaeda, Hamas etc to frame and blame Muslims for the crimes committed by the agents of Mossad etc. How do I decide? I do researches!

 

You stolen car analogy actually tells me that Jews have the right to all of Jerusalem, since they built it and first owned it.

 

By using your analogy, Jews have NO right to all of Jerusalem because between 10000 and 5000 BC, agricultural communities were established in Palestine. By the early Bronze Age (3000 - 2200 BCE) independent Canaanite city-states situated in plains and coastal regions and surrounded by mud-brick defensive walls were established and most of these cities relied on nearby agricultural hamlets for their food needs. Where were Jews? Jews were nowhere! Jews did not exist at the time!

 

I believe that Palestine belongs to Palestinian people since they have been living in Palestine since the time is immemorial.

 

However, I quite agree that israel cannot negotiate with people who are commited to the total destruction of israel and (some of them) the total destruction of all Jews.

 

And we do not recognize israel for it is established by Zionist terrorists who terrorize, massacre and rob Palestinian people of their land. I quite agree that Palestine cannot negotiate with Zionists who are committed to the total destruction of Palestine and Palestinian people and (some of them) the total destruction of all Palestinian people.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, you will never defeat israel by force.

 

You are an ignorant person for ignoring history. History tells us how a country rise, reach its peak and then their downfall. israel is going to have the same fate someday.

 

So negotiation is your only option. So screaming obscene racism such as 'The Protocols...' and blaming "Zionists" for every crime committed by Muslims is crippling your only option.

 

Negotiation is your only option? What a joke! Palestinian people are losing more land through the US-sponsored negotiations with Zionists! In fact Palestinian people are being confined by large Zionist concentration camps in Palestine. We know that Zionists have impersonated Hamas to carry out terrorism and blamed Hamas for the crimes committed by Zionist agents. The Protocols of Zion or the Zionist Protocols reflects the present Zionist strategies.

 

The greatest political success story of the 20th century was Nelson Mandela's almost bloodless victory in the battle against apartheid. (And no, nothing done to the Palesinians has been in the same league as the horrors inflicted on the majority in South Africa under apartheid.) Why on earth aren't the Paletinians and their friends trying that path?

 

Zionists have been slaughtering innocent and defenseless Palestinian people since the establishment of illegal israel. The Zionists have carried out numerous Zionist Massacres against Palestinians such as YEHIDA MASSACRE, KHISAS MASSACRE, QAZAZA MASSACRE, AL-SHEIKH VILLAGE MASSACRE, DEIR YASSIN MASSACRE, NASER AL-DIN MASSACRE, BEIT DARAS MASSACRE, THE DAHMASH Masjid MASSACRE etc.

 

Do you expect Palestinian people to greet, kiss and give a bouquet of flowers to the brutal Zionists while Zionists are slaughtering innocent and defenseless Palestinian people?

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So, you are saying that the Palestinians should continue in their current miserable position, commiting futile acts of violence and suffering reprisals (and vice versa if you insist), forever. You know that israel cannot be defeated, yet you refuse to consider the only other option, which is negotiation.

 

Nelson Mandela did it, why can't the Palestinians?

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By using your analogy, Jews have NO right to all of Jerusalem because between 10000 and 5000 BC, agricultural communities were established in Palestine. By the early Bronze Age (3000 - 2200 BCE) independent Canaanite city-states situated in plains and coastal regions and surrounded by mud-brick defensive walls were established and most of these cities relied on nearby agricultural hamlets for their food needs. Where were Jews? Jews were nowhere! Jews did not exist at the time!

 

Actually, I didn't give an analogy, I commented on yours. And I believe that my comment stands, because like Jerusalem, a car is not a piece of land, it is something that was built by people. Jews built Jerusalem and it was stolen by Muslims. The Jews have taken it back.

 

I believe that Palestine belongs to Palestinian people since they have been living in Palestine since the time is immemorial.

 

You've grabbed an English idiom/cliche ('since time immemorial') and are misusing it. I have no idea what you think "since the time is immemorial" means - perhaps you can explain.

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Jews built Jerusalem and it was stolen by Muslims. The Jews have taken it back.

 

wrong. jerusalem or PALESTINE or CANAAN was built by CANAANITES and it's stolen by jews and muslims and others. indeed god wants jews to have PALESTINE BUTT they should have it via peaceful means base on sharing with the native PALESTINIANS and not by plundering and murdering them as you can see right now. read history in the right perspective.

 

part of masada info are lies but the HARDfact remains PALESTINE changes hands many times till lately it's conquered by arabs and colonialist british :sl:

 

When the Hebrews arrive at Canaan, the land promised to them millenia earlier when God told Abraham at Shechem that the land would belong to his descendants, they they begin the long, painful, and disappointing process of setting the land. There were, after all, people already living there. These people, the Canaanites, were a Semitic people speaking a language remarkably close to Hebrew. They were farmers, some were nomads, but they were also civilized. They used the great Mesopotamian cities as their model and had built modest imitations of them. They had also learned military technology and tactics from the Mesopotamians, as well as law. So the Hebrews, uncivilized, tribal, and nomadic, found themselves facing a formidable enemy. Even the accounts of this period in the Hebrew bible, the books of Joshua and Judges paint a pretty dreary picture of the occupation.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetjewishvirtuallibrary(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/jsource/History/hebcanaan.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetjewishvirtuallibrary(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/jsourc.../hebcanaan.html[/url]

 

Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, israel's ancient capital (half truth - the earliest settlers are CANAANITES). The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews [Jews], Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948 (half truth - un divided PALESTINE so that jews can resurrected their israel). None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!(lies - CANAANITES and other conquerers did help to build CANAAN/PALESTINE, it's now plundered by israelis for their illegal jewish settlements, security apartheid walls etc)

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmasada2000(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetmasada2000(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/[/url]

Edited by tom

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A two-state solution is the only realistic option on the table.

 

excellent option indeed. could you care to elaborate how the 2-state thing gonna look like? israelis with their illegal jewish settlements, security apartheid walls intact and PALESTINIANS in their concentration camps? :sl:

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I've no idea what it would look like, that's the point of negotiations. But there's no alternative.

 

 

Umm, you don't seem to have refuted my point that Jews built Jerusalem.

Edited by fallow

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I've no idea what it would look like, that's the point of negotiations. But there's no alternative.

 

if you follow the news closely you gonna find olmert is not sincere in the 2 state solution coz he wanna continue building illegal jewish settlements on PALESTINIAN part of PALESTINE. in other words you wanna PALESTINIANS bow submissively pleading for negotiations as israelis raped them of their land. right? good lord!

 

At last month's summit in Annapolis, Md., Olmert and Abbas agreed to restart peace talks after seven years of violence, setting a 2008 target for a final peace agreement. But attempts to begin negotiations have foundered over a new israeli plan to build more than 300 new homes in a Jewish neighborhood of east Jerusalem.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.yahoo(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/s/ap/20071227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_news.yahoo(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/s/ap/20071227/ap_on_...el_palestinians[/url]

 

Umm, you don't seem to have refuted my point that Jews built Jerusalem.

 

i'm refuting masada point ie

None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!
while i said -
(lies - CANAANITES and other conquerers did help to build CANAAN/PALESTINE, it's now plundered by israelis for their illegal jewish settlements, security apartheid walls etc)
dig? :sl: Edited by tom

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if you follow the news closely you gonna find olmert is not sincere in the 2 state solution coz he wanna continue building illegal jewish settlements on PALESTINIAN part of PALESTINE. in other words you wanna PALESTINIANS bow submissively pleading for negotiations as israelis raped them of their land. right? good lord!

 

You have an alternative? That there should never be peace and the Palestinians kept in Gaza and refugee camps (kept there by Arabs, in many cases) stay there forever? If De Klerk and Mandela could negotiate away a much greater evil of much longer standing, there's no reason why israel and Palestine can't.

 

Seiously - what are you actually advocating? That the US abandons israel to destruction by its neighbours? I can't see that ever happening, and even if something went so badly wrong in the US that it couldn't keep its promise I would hope that Europe, Russia, China or India would step up to the plate. All of those regions have domestic problems with Mulsim terrorism/political violence, so they would be LESS inclined to treat the Paleistinians well.

 

Umm, I didn't make any point about Masada. I was pointing out that by ######'s stolen car analogy, Jerusalem was a stolen city. The Jews have reclaimed it.

 

 

 

edit typos

Edited by fallow

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You have an alternative?

 

no. nonetheless i don't think you wanna see PALESTINIANS bow submissively as israelis rape them via illegal jewish settlements and security apartheid walls as they piously chant let's make peace. right?

 

Seiously - what are you actually advocating? That the US abandons israel to destruction by its neighbours?

 

i expect the us to PLAY FAIR. as much as the us love israelis that much it should love the PALESTINIANS. the us is donating millions worth of arms to the israelis and they should do likewise to PALESTINIANS. and the us should whack israel in the head for stealing more and more PALESTINIAN lands for their socalled buffer zone. only then would PALESTINIANS feel they're not being oppressed and suppressed by their neighbour israelis. dig?

 

Umm, I didn't make any point about Masada. I was pointing out that by ######'s stolen car analogy, Jerusalem was a stolen city. The Jews have reclaimed it.

 

on the other hand i'm refuting your claim that

Jews built Jerusalem and it was stolen by Muslims. The Jews have taken it back.
every conquerers have helped built jerusalem/PALESTINE/CANAAN. jews stole from CANAANITES and muslims stole from jews while un donated a part of PALESTINE to imported jews to resurrect their israel :sl: Edited by tom

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So, your solution to the israel/Palestine problem is to escalate it into a full-scale war (which, despite the rhetoric, it is nowhere near now)? That's helpful. That will save Palesitinain lives.

 

Again - why should 30-odd million indigenous South Africans bend over to negotiate with their oppressors? Because it works. Because they got most of what they wanted. They avoided a bloodbath.

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So, your solution to the israel/Palestine problem is to escalate it into a full-scale war (which, despite the rhetoric, it is nowhere near now)? That's helpful. That will save Palesitinain lives.

 

Again - why should 30-odd million indigenous South Africans bend over to negotiate with their oppressors? Because it works. Because they got most of what they wanted. They avoided a bloodbath.

 

How could Palestinian people avoid a blood bath when the israeli regime of terror has turned Palestine into a blood bath by carrying out numerous israeli massacres against Palestinian people since the establishment of the illegal israel? Palestinian people are the rightful owners of Palestine for they have been living in Palestine since the time is immemorial.

 

What about you? Would you tolerate Zionists who are terrorizing and murdering your family and robbing your of your money, home, land etc so that you would get most of what you want? I wonder what kind of society that you live in that tolerate criminals.

Edited by wiseguy

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How could Palestinian people avoid a blood bath when the israeli regime of terror has turned Palestine into a blood bath by carrying out numerous israeli massacres against Palestinian people since the establishment of the illegal israel? Palestinian people are the rightful owners of Palestine for they have been living in Palestine since the time is immemorial.

 

What about you? Would you tolerate Zionists who are terrorizing and murdering your family and robbing your of your money, home, land etc so that you would get most of what you want? I wonder what kind of society that you live in that tolerate criminals.

 

 

Palestine is nowhere near full-scale warfare.

 

I'm prepared to give some credence to the line that the Pastinians are so traumatised that they can't help themselves. However, that doesn't excuse all the other Muslims who are urging them to continue the worse-than-futile violence. They will never defeat israel. Their violence directly causes more suffering for themselves. Their only hope is negotiation. Why don't you help work towards that? I repeat - if Mandela and De Klerk could negotiate the end of a far nastier regime, of much longer standing, affecting many more people, why can't the israelis and the Palestinians?

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