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{sniff} Are You A Zionist?

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Are you saying that people never have a right to reclaim their ancestral lands (in which case the Palestinians are in the wrong), or are you saying that there's a time limit, after which people lose the right to reclaim their ancestral lands? If the latter, what is that limit? The Jews lost Jerusalem a lot less than 7000 years ago. You might say they lost it to the Romans 2000-odd years ago, or you might say they lost it to the Muslims 1300-odd years ago. Are these the time limits you are proposing?

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PropellerAds
Are you racist? Who said that Jews can't live there? Offcourse they can but they have no right to claim separate nation exclusive for Jews. Most of the Jews are Khazars and they have no past relation with religion of Abraham or Palestine. Make your facts clear before expressing your racist ideas.

 

btw Jews are foing great thing collecting all the Jews at same place. They are making things easy for us.

 

I could reply to you seriously and point out that my post is a response to the pevious post which claimed that reclaiming ancestral lands was not a good thing, but as you are obviously the sort of sub-human which gets off on fantasies of mass murderer there's no point, really. Have a lovely life.

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Wow, what a hateful thread.

 

 

How many more thousands of years do the Jews need to be kicked around?

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It is scary, the opinions expressed of some self described moderate Muslims. Sounds like a lot of radical speech for moderates. For anyone, the Jews or the Palestinians to claim to have a ancestoral right to the land is insane. Any Jew, Christian, or Muslim has a religous and ancestoral claim to the land. it is where everything started. God promised the land to the Jews in the Bible. Our saviour Jesus Christ performed many of his miracles in those same lands, and more recently it was inhabited by Muslims who defended the land during the crusades. So everyone has a claim to it. But calling for the destruction of Isreal, firing rockets into Isreal, and refusing to negotiate a peace are no way to resolve the situation. If only reasonable people could work this out, instead, both sides seem to be hijacked by radicals. Why Isreal keeps building settlements is beyond me, I don't know. But what the Palestinians hope to accomplish by attacking Isreal is beyone me as well.

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God promised the land to the Jews in the Bible. Our saviour Jesus Christ performed many of his miracles in those same lands, and more recently it was inhabited by Muslims who defended the land during the crusades. So everyone has a claim to it. But calling for the destruction of Isreal, firing rockets into Isreal, and refusing to negotiate a peace are no way to resolve the situation. If only reasonable people could work this out, instead, both sides seem to be hijacked by radicals. Why Isreal keeps building settlements is beyond me, I don't know. But what the Palestinians hope to accomplish by attacking Isreal is beyone me as well.

You would probably do better to leave religion out of the discussion. Muslims believe the land was promised to Ishmael, not Isaac, and they claim Jesus as one of their own prophets.

 

Beyond this, you have already expressed elsewhere that you think the Jewish occupation legitimate because force of arms is "just the way things are". How can you then turn around and cry when the Palestinians adopt your ideas and take up arms against israel?

 

Yes, one would hope for reasonableness on all sides, unfortunately, the entire situation was created, not by reason, but by European guilt and a desire to put the "Jewish problem" on someone else's doorstep.

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maybe i'm not explaining myself well. what i am saying is this, the holy land has changed hands through force several times over the course of history. The Jews, Christians, and Muslims have all controlled Jerusalem at one point or the other. All these religions also have sacred sites in the city. To act as if the Muslims have more of a right to Jerusalem than the Jews or the Christians is what we call "homerism". Homerism is a sports term, where an individual only sees the good in his team and never sees the shortcomings.

 

personally, i don't think anyone should control Jerusalem. if i had the authority to do so I would create a Palestinian state next to Isreal and I would Jerusalem similar to the vatican. Not part of any country, a land unto itself. Where Muslims, Christians and Jews could go in peace to visit thier holy sites.

 

But my feeling is that won't be good enough either. It seems that both Isreal and the Arabs seem to only want to destroy the other side. It really is a shame.

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maybe i'm not explaining myself well. what i am saying is this, the holy land has changed hands through force several times over the course of history. The Jews, Christians, and Muslims have all controlled Jerusalem at one point or the other.

Yes, I am aware of the history here.

All these religions also have sacred sites in the city. To act as if the Muslims have more of a right to Jerusalem than the Jews or the Christians is what we call "homerism".

But the Muslims aren't acting as if they have more of a right to Jerusalem, israel is. The Muslims just want to use east Jerusalem as their capital, they aren't refusing israel's right to also have it as their capital. You realize that east Jerusalem used to be a part of Palestinian territory. The obstacle to your vision of a kinder, gentler Middle East in this circumstance isn't the Palestinians, but israel.

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Yes, I am aware of the history here.

 

But the Muslims aren't acting as if they have more of a right to Jerusalem, israel is. The Muslims just want to use east Jerusalem as their capital, they aren't refusing israel's right to also have it as their capital. You realize that east Jerusalem used to be a part of Palestinian territory. The obstacle to your vision of a kinder, gentler Middle East in this circumstance isn't the Palestinians, but israel.

 

Another point in which we disagree. East Jerusalem use to be part of Palestine, why isn't it anymore. Is it because Isreal was attacked and was forced to defend itself from enemies on all sides? Of course that is why and as always, Isreal won the war. So they took more land to get a buffer from the savages that keep attacking them. The obstacle to peace is the Arabs who keep firing rockets into Isreal and kidnapping Isrealis thus creating the need for a larger buffer from the aggressors.

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Another point in which we disagree. East Jerusalem use to be part of Palestine, why isn't it anymore. Is it because Isreal was attacked and was forced to defend itself from enemies on all sides? Of course that is why and as always, Isreal won the war. So they took more land to get a buffer from the savages that keep attacking them. The obstacle to peace is the Arabs who keep firing rockets into Isreal and kidnapping Isrealis thus creating the need for a larger buffer from the aggressors.

You do realize that this land acquisition was done in direct violation of the UN charter that granted them a home in the Middle East on the backs of the Palestinians, a charter which they are a signatory member in addition to owing their countries very existence to:

Chapter 1, Article 2, Paragraph 4: All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

I don't think we have any more to talk about. You don't care to see these people as humans and you blame the Arabs for being upset that they were displaced without consultation for no other reason than that the Germans behaved badly. Also, lets try and count the dead and kidnapped on israel's side, and then count the dead and kidnapped (although they call it an arrest) on the Palestinian side. It's a wonder you can only see how bad the Palestinians are in the face of such facts. But it certainly is a testament to your ideological commitment.

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You do realize that this land acquisition was done in direct violation of the UN charter that granted them a home in the Middle East on the backs of the Palestinians, a charter which they are a signatory member in addition to owing their countries very existence to:

 

I don't think we have any more to talk about. You don't care to see these people as humans and you blame the Arabs for being upset that they were displaced without consultation for no other reason than that the Germans behaved badly. Also, lets try and count the dead and kidnapped on israel's side, and then count the dead and kidnapped (although they call it an arrest) on the Palestinian side. It's a wonder you can only see how bad the Palestinians are in the face of such facts. But it certainly is a testament to your ideological commitment.

 

My ideological commitment is this. I'm on the side that is not beheading people. I'm on the side that doesn't crash airplanes into buildings. I'm on the side that doesn't strap explosives to children and send them into crowded markets. I'm on the side that chooses to educate it's women, i'm on the side that allows its women to vote. I'm on the side that doesn't honor kill. Understanding thier frustration only placates them and makes them think thier terrorist tactics work.

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My ideological commitment is this. I'm on the side that is not beheading people. I'm on the side that doesn't crash airplanes into buildings. I'm on the side that doesn't strap explosives to children and send them into crowded markets. I'm on the side that chooses to educate it's women, i'm on the side that allows its women to vote. I'm on the side that doesn't honor kill. Understanding thier frustration only placates them and makes them think thier terrorist tactics work.

Great. Now if you could only be not on the side of shooting children, imposing a crushing totalitarian ghetto on the dispossessed, and calmly chalking up civilian deaths from unmanned drones to acceptable percentages of collateral damage. It would be good for you to not be on the side of people who bulldoze others homes and actively undermine democratically elected governance, to be on the side of letting people vote for whomever they want as oppose to just those dictators who are willing to appease western economic demands. Perhaps you could be on the side that doesn't systematically imprison a racially delineated section of their population. But I suppose understanding your frustration only placates you and makes you think you and your governments strong arm tactics not only work, but are acceptable to the rest of the world.

Edited by the sad clown

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For those who believe that Palestinians have no right on the land of israel or who support the existence of israel...

 

If a group invaded America and took a good portion of it, would the Americans be justified in taking it back? Would you, CharlotteJim, speak out against Americans who shot rockets into the occupied land?

 

It's very easy to make judgements about the israel/Palestinian issue when we have no emotional attachment whatsoever. But perhaps people should take the opportunity to reflect on how they would feel if their own lands, or lands they are familiar with, were taken over.

 

What do Palestinians hope to gain by attacking israel? Something they will never gain if they simply give up; the land that they have lost.

 

This is israel and Palestine over 6 decades ago:

 

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_i450.11chan(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/albums/qq222/amalayn/Palestinein1947map.gif[/img]

 

This is israel and Palestine today:

 

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_i450.11chan(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/albums/qq222/amalayn/Palestinetodaymap.gif[/img]

 

Sorry, but "just give up" isn't an easy solution for those living it. Not when they're at risk of having their homes uprooted so that the neighboring country will expand its territory. And especially not for those it has already happened to.

 

Salam.

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This is israel and Palestine today:

 

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_i450.11chan(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/albums/qq222/amalayn/Palestinetodaymap.gif[/img]

Ah, except your image is deceptive in that the Palestinians are being undermined by israel even in control over even the area highlighted for them, and israeli settlements continue to eat away at the territory in their hands.

Edited by the sad clown

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Ah, except your image is deceptive in that the Palestinians are being undermined by israel even in control over even the area highlighted for them, and israeli settlements continue to eat away at the territory in their hands.

 

I didn't want to be accused of exaggerating. Thanks for the correction. :sl:

 

Salam.

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My ideological commitment is this. I'm on the side that is not beheading people. I'm on the side that doesn't crash airplanes into buildings. I'm on the side that doesn't strap explosives to children and send them into crowded markets. I'm on the side that chooses to educate it's women, i'm on the side that allows its women to vote. I'm on the side that doesn't honor kill. Understanding thier frustration only placates them and makes them think thier terrorist tactics work.

 

lol what a joker.

 

First Islam is against killing innocent civilians.

Second Islam allows women to vote

Third Islam is against honour killings, you cannot take the law in your own hands.

Fourth Islam allows women to be educated.

 

What evidence do you have that even the Palestinians support those retarded allegations that you made? Fox news? CNN?

 

Your Christan? Please educate yourself about your own religion before you make silly accusations against Islam. You will only embarrass yourself. Sort out the flaws in your own religion, before attacking Islam.

 

Crashing airplanes into buildings?

 

What about the bombings of bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki? The torture in guantanamo bay? Thousands killed in Iraq and Afghanistan?

My Lai Massacre? Operation Ranch Hand? Americans are not the only victims here.

 

Their frustration is caused by israel and America unequivocal support for israel. israel and America have committed countless of war crimes.

 

I'm not saying what the terrorists have done is right at all, but your support for these killings make me wanna puke. Your sick!

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Would someone mind telling me what you guys are talking about now? Cause believe me 11 pages is A LOT to read through! Lol but I must say half of these posts crack me up!!

 

I don't really know if this helps but I'm sure it'll make the ones who understand Islam laugh..........if SOME people don't understand their own religon let alone other then leave them to their own blindness........Allah swt has sealed their hearts....I mean what's the point in making ignorant people understand?........so here is my advice

 

1. Stand back

2. Watch them destruct themselves......................and laugh!!! HAHAHAHA lol

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Would someone mind telling me what you guys are talking about now? Cause believe me 11 pages is A LOT to read through! Lol but I must say half of these posts crack me up!!

 

I don't really know if this helps but I'm sure it'll make the ones who understand Islam laugh..........if SOME people don't understand their own religon let alone other then leave them to their own blindness........Allah swt has sealed their hearts....I mean what's the point in making ignorant people understand?........so here is my advice

 

1. Stand back

2. Watch them destruct themselves......................and laugh!!! HAHAHAHA lol

 

Are you talking about suicide bombers, or the people posting in this thread? I'm just wondering.

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I have read that israel is for the Jews in Holy Books, and if it is to be so, let it be so, the violence, nonetheless needs to stop. I don't just mean on one end, I mean on both, although, look in google, do a search for Palestinian children killed, you will see countless photos, do another search for israeli children killed, you will see photos, but look closer, you won't see as many and you will see under many photos, Palestinian children killed by israelis. I do not think that Jews are bad, nor do I think that the average citizen living in israel wants to hurt/kill/rape/torture etc. etc. I do however believe that there are those in top ranking positions who do believe that genocide is necessary to get rid of the "evil" that is Palestinians.

 

I can say, that israel, did not belong to the Jews the whole time and that after the World War, it was given to them. Some say they have every right to take it, I say, okay, but to the Americans who say they have every right to go in there and take it, will you give your lands to the Native Americans because it was theirs first? So there isn't a Holy Book that says it was rightfully theirs but we all know the story and we know this land was stolen from them so it goes to reason that we should give it back because stealing and taking things is against all the religions I've read about so far.

 

You see, hatred breeds more hatred, I do not hate anyone, I do however dislike what is being done in Palestine and in israel and I say, they both find other places to live until they can each act like God's people. Separate the masses to make for a more peaceful existence, yeah, I say that is a lot better than having them be there together killing one another.

 

Murder is not acceptable, I don't think any religion says it is. Also, the US stands by israel because as my husband says, they are the greatest ally we have over there amongst the Arab nations, it makes things easier for us, we burned our bridges with a lot of countries but israel remains faithful to us and our money and support goes to them and it does help aid in their genocide. I would not deny the Holocaust, but I do not see how anyone can deny another genocide before our eyes, then again, most people have long forgotten about Darfur and that genocide continues to this day, even with press releases about Bush in his days in office having an oil deal with the Sudan despite the fact that he knew there was a genocide going on.

 

The world is an ugly place we should not overlook things because big governments back up wrongdoings of others. We should all just pray and try our best to reinforce peace. To reinforce and to love and to not let anger and hatred into our own hearts. When we become so consumed with the plight of others that it stirs up our blood and makes us so angry that we could kill, we know right there, that is how it all starts, that is what needs to be put aside, we need to start loving and stop hating and start looking for ways to help one another and to stop the killing, to end the misery and to not condone murderers of any religion.

 

May God grant peace and forgiveness to all and may His light shine down and guide the footsteps of rulers to come so that we might have a better future.

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I like the strictness to these rules, especially since I'm Palestinian. :sl:

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well...there is much to say on this subject. As a person who knows first hand what it means to have his fahers lands taken from him, I can, without a doubt, say that Palistinians deserve to be treated with respect. They deserve the right to defend themselves and to fight for their rights. If God has given the land to the Jews then who are we to dissagree. But, in know uncertain terms does that mean that the Jews can just take over their neighbors lands. i mean, why are they not trying to take on other bordering countries? why does the world just sit back and watch as the jews build new homes on land that is not theirs? As a native american (red indian) I only see the pain that my ancestors must have endured. how can younot support the palisistian people. they are losng a battle for their homes! would you not do the same if someone was taking your home? i believe there needsto be a border. and eachside needs to respect the other. most importantly, the jews need to pay the palistians for their disgressions and leave the lands that are clearly not theirs!

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i also believe that Islamic nations around the world need to put more effort into making america and its allies change how they treat muslim countries. withall the political capitol Islamic countries have, i just cant believe that they cant pull together and do something about an out of control jewish state that is intent on attacking an Islamic country. and i'mnot talki about palistine this time, i am talking about Iran. america can not afford anothr war,its economy is suffering with the 1.2 trillion dollar war it has already. if it ha to defend isreal then it could men econimical dissaster for the US. so, i feel that all Islamc nations need to stand together and put the jews in their place. muslims should force the americans to make a choice in who their real allies are.america needs to stop protecting thereal bully on te block.

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I was on CNN the other day trying to make a point (crowd control). It so happened that my argument involved the term "zionism." It was flagged for moderation and was removed. Zionism is their dirty little secret. Some guy got away with it by spelling it "zlonism." Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil...

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