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Natural Selection

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:D

 

we have studied at school about the basics of evolution's theory. what they say is that for example two animals of the same soort may stay away from eachother in different climates, and gradually will differ from eachother qua fenotype and genotype, as they have to adapt that new environement.... this has been proved, and there are several examples of animals who look quite a lot the same but because of living in different places their beak or for example their feathers differ in shape.

 

the also talk about the extra structure of bones found in whales or some other water animals.... which might have been used for their legs but now they are not used and the bones are found in their body.... or snake has bones of legs in their body.... so what are they doing there when it has no use now? they might had legs....

 

 

how could someone answer these arguments? isn't it possible that animals adapt to another environment and slowly change?

Edited by Grace_of_Allah

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PropellerAds

Assalamu alaikum sister Grace of Allah :smile:

 

what they say is that for example two animals of the same soort may stay away from eachother in different climates, and gradually will differ from eachother qua fenotype and genotype, as they have to adapt that new environement.... this has been proved, and there are several examples of animals who look quite a lot the same but because of living in different places their beak or for example their feathers differ in shape.

 

 

Indeed this has been proven, no Creation scientist disputes this. Natural selection is based on the observation that there is variation among individuals in a population. Natural selection states that those individuals which posses some advantage in the environment (such as being a faster runner) are more likely to leave more offspring, thereby increasing the probability of passing the advantage on to future generations.

 

 

Natural selection is what "retains" the occasional positive mutation and causes the population to "advance" is some way. Creationists note that this mechanism can only "select" among already existing traits - it cannot create something new. This is not gereral evolution, it is variation. These animals living in different places may have different beaks or feathers, but they cannot evolve into a new species.

 

Sadly, variation is being taught as evolution, but this is totally wrong.

 

the also talk about the extra structure of bones found in whales or some other water animals.... which might have been used for their legs but now they are not used and the bones are found in their body.... or snake has bones of legs in their body.... so what are they doing there when it has no use now? they might had legs

 

 

This is an interesting article on the myth of "you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.harunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/70national_geographic_sci29.ph"]Whale Evolution[/url] by Harun Yahya. These theories are based on conjecture.

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Creationists note that this mechanism can only "select" among already existing traits - it cannot create something new.

 

:D

 

What if a new mutation arises in the DNA -> this could create a new trait. Such new mutations can be introduced by mutagens (cigarette-smoke, ultra-violet light, etc.)

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Furthermore, Allah might somehow controll the accidents that lead to new mutation (e.g. a photon hitting the DNA base or an error in replication)...

 

in this way Allah could use evolution as a tool to create new species. What do you think?

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Furthermore, Allah might somehow controll the accidents that lead to new mutation (e.g. a photon hitting the DNA base or an error in replication)...

 

in this way Allah could use evolution as a tool to create new species. What do you think?

 

 

:D Allah doesn't need any tools brother....

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:D

 

yes goAllah and the mutations are always harmful and cant create new species...

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:D

 

yes goAllah and the mutations are always harmful and cant create new species...

 

not true........

 

a good example occured in a large number of white-coloured moths in Britain from the 1700s. several studies from the time up to the present showed that during the industrial revolution, white moths with black-pigment mutations fared much better than white-pigment moths, since they had better camouflage againt black sooty tree trunks, and came to outnumber the original white moths. but since the second world war, when air quality began to improve, the white moths began to fare better. i remember reading articles on this exact phenomenon in two or three magazines over the years, and it is definately a good example of positive mutations.

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not true........

 

a good example occured in a large number of white-coloured moths in Britain from the 1700s. several studies from the time up to the present showed that during the industrial revolution, white moths with black-pigment mutations fared much better than white-pigment moths, since they had better camouflage againt black sooty tree trunks, and came to outnumber the original white moths. but since the second world war, when air quality began to improve, the white moths began to fare better. i remember reading articles on this exact phenomenon in two or three magazines over the years, and it is definately a good example of positive mutations.

 

The peppered moth experiment is unfortunately flawed. (www.)"http://talkorigins/indexcc/CB/CB601.html"]talkorigins/indexcc/CB/CB601.html[/url] has a slightly better description, but basically, the experiment was not carried out properly. "In decades of field work, only one peppered moth was found resting on a tree trunk in the wild." It was shown that all of the pictures and evidence from this work was staged.

 

Natural selection is what "retains" the occasional positive mutation and causes the population to "advance" is some way. Creationists note that this mechanism can only "select" among already existing traits - it cannot create something new. This is not gereral evolution, it is variation. These animals living in different places may have different beaks or feathers, but they cannot evolve into a new species.

 

The population does not "advance", evolution has no direction. It is merely a change that provides a competitive advantage.

 

Variation of traits is production of novelty, especially where there was no variation before. The accumulation of slight modifications is a basis of evolution.

 

Evolution is able to "create something entirely new". For example, in 1995, a species of bacteria able to digest nylon was discovered. This is significant because nylon was invented VERY recently. Why would the "code" for digesting nylon have been present for so long?

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very true

 

similar is the existance of penicilin-resistant bacteria (e.g. the infamous MRSA "superbug"). penicilin doesnt exist naturally in any large quantity, so these Superbugs are a recent product of natural selection.

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Natural selection is the strongest survive and pass on the genes and the weak die and dont carry on, if an animal finds itself in a different climate/area and it needs to adapt to BECOME the strongest then it will do so.

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Peace,

 

Natural selection is the strongest survive and pass on the genes and the weak die and dont carry on, if an animal finds itself in a different climate/area and it needs to adapt to BECOME the strongest then it will do so.

 

The basis of what you're saying is true, but it's not necesarrily the strongest that survive. The species that most successfully pass on their genes are the ones which flourish, if they can do that through co-operation with other species then they will be the ones which survive. For example the 'Scarlet Lady Cleaner Shrimp' or Lysmata debelius species clean the teeth of other species and survive on other creatures dental leftovers.

 

On a somewhat bizarre web-site I found a photo of a guy who held his breath next to one for long enough that the shrimp cleaned his teeth for him!

 

shrimp1.jpg

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Sadly, variation is being taught as evolution, but this is totally wrong.

 

Salam, Yousuf,

 

Evolution is "variation in the frequency of alleles in a population". If someone has told you otherwise, they have not told you the truth. Evolution is a fact. We have observed these variations.

 

Sadly, in order to argue against evolution, some creationists will lie about what the definition of evolution is in order to present a false view, hoping that those who have not studied biology will be fooled. This is no different from those who will lie about what Islam is in order to present a false view, hoping that those who have not studied Islam will be fooled. Both of these actions are wrong.

 

Adnan Oktar (Harun Yahya) is devious. He cites a verse from the Qur'an, and then quotes a fundamentalist christian, and then cites another verse from the Qur'an, hoping that those who see this will not notice how he corrupts your religion. I have seen a video of his posted on this website where he uses this exact method. The fundamentalist christians he cites have been shown to be liars in court.

 

From the (www.)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_www.sciohost(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/ncse/kvd/kitzmiller_decision_20051220.p"]Kitzmiller decision (pdf)[/url]: "It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy." These are the same people, Behe et al., that Harun Yahya quotes, placing their words between quotes from the Qur'an.

 

If Adnan Oktar is considered an Islamic scholar, I ask a moderator to delete this post. I do not wish to break any rules of this forum. But I do hope that muslims reading his words will be wary. I say "salam" to wish you peace, but I also tell you openly I am not muslim. The evidence shows Adnan Oktar is not as honest.

 

As ever, Jesse

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Soooo

 

Allah creates a creature, and its OK if it adapts to a new situation. It's only adapting, you know? Just a little.

 

Now take the time that it adapted and add 10,000 years of adapting. What would you have?

 

A very different creature... aka a new species...

 

What of the fossils?

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Soooo

 

Allah creates a creature, and its OK if it adapts to a new situation. It's only adapting, you know? Just a little.

 

Now take the time that it adapted and add 10,000 years of adapting. What would you have?

 

A very different creature... aka a new species...

 

What of the fossils?

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Salaam Grace_of_Allah

 

 

:D

we have studied at school about the basics of evolution's theory....

 

Just to clarify; especially with all these terms being thrown around.

 

The theory of evolution, simply speaking, consists of two main components

 

1. Mechanisms of evolution

i. Natural Selection

ii. Genetic 'drift'

iii. Sexual selection

 

2. Common Descent -[ i.e 2 species related by a common ancestor]

 

Which is inferred from observation of anatomical & molecular homologies, Biographical distribution, vestigial structures etc

 

A good primer/revision of evolution can be found at.

The University of California Museum of Palaeontology

evolution.berkeley.edu/

 

Best Regards

CtR

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