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classicmo

The Question Of The Place Of Allah?

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Salam,

 

I am a relatively new muslim and one thing is beginning to weigh heavily on my mind. Why is it that some muslims say that God exists above the arsh and some say that he exists without a place. This seems to me like a very important issue and I do not want to believe incorrectly for fear of Allah.

 

Any help on this would very much be appreciated.

 

Thank you

 

Salam

 

Mohamed

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PropellerAds

read the quran :sl:

you will be fed to an extent where you dont need to know more of what the question was proposed brother

sallam allekom

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read the quran :sl:

you will be fed to an extent where you dont need to know more of what the question was proposed brother

sallam allekom

 

Thankyou Alsheeba for your response. I can't read the Quran, but I have read the english translation. I personally believe that Allah does not exist in a defined place but I am finding more and more that my belief is not the majority belief.

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Bismillaah

 

Assalamu 'Alaykum Mohamed

 

Let us first realize that Allah is absolutely other than His creation. The Creator cannot by any means be the same type of being as that which He creates. It also follows that to ‘locate’ Allah would be to place Him in our space and time dimension when we know this is definitely not the case. Allah is not in our space/time dimension. He is not subject to the same constraints that we are. This is self-evident to sense and reason.

 

The answer can be read in full here:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamonline(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015578&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE"]Link[/url]

 

I hope this helps Inshaa'Allah

 

:sl:

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:sl:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetsalafipublications(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/sps/"]

Where is Allah?[/url]

 

:sl:

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:sl:

Where is Allah?

 

:sl:

 

Thankyou for this link but I am no further in my understanding. How is it that Allah is above the 7 sky's and the arsh? Was not Allah alone before he created heaven and the arsh? If he was neither above or below anything at that point, how is it that he came to be somewhere?

 

Thank you and Salam,

 

Mohamed

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...salaam brother muhammad...

someone above has pointed rightly that the dimensions/dynamics that apply to a 'chair' and a 'table' do not /can not encompass the carpenter...

for Allah's rule to be omnipresent and omnipotent and for Him to be omniscient, He does not need the 'tools' that we, the created may think would be needed...

however it is basic to faith that Allah subhanohu v ta'laa is on the arsh..the arsh is the 'capital' as you may need an analogy to understand..and the laws formulated by the capital are controlling the creation..

why did Allah choose the above arsh place for himself?

one simple answer would be the 'filth' that satellites and humans create in the shape of voilence,profanities and ....

another less simple answer would be to exhibit to the creation that Allah subhanohu v ta'la is 'high and above' in every sense of the word....

monitoring His creation from that distance, being aware of their innermost thoughts,does not trouble him, becuase distance itself is a created entity....

as is 'unawareness/ignorance/darkness'....'time', 'awareness' 'curiosity' etc., etc.,

the pardise/jannah is for Allah's guests that He will choose for the never -ending -journey of getting more close to Allah, the Infinite...since limits are a created entity..

similarly the arsh is a created entity..it is for our understanding and it is not foiction too..Allah is free of the need for fiction/or any falsehood..He is Capable of whatever He chooses..so if He said I am on the arsh and I Know,and See all..the smallest particle, or even smaller than that..and i see the stealing you do with your eyes,and I sense your thoughts,and I know what you will do tomorrow ...He is capable..in every sense..

it is like the 'maze' game we played as children,trying to enter a maze at one end,to find our way to the end with the reward...the one in the maze doesnt know which way to go, but the one who 'drew' the maze knows which way we will turn next and what will be the result of the turn we take...

so coming back to your question:

He says He is on the arsh..so it means He is on the arsh...

i hope i answered to your satisfaction....

(remember ,like you i am also one of His subjects, for me it suffices to know that HE said that) ......if not..say it and will try again...

jazak-Allah for asking..

salaam.

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Assalamu Alaikum, JazaakAllahu Khairan for all who answered, InshaAllah hopefully my answer will clarify more.

 

Question:

salam, where is Allah.

 

Answer:

Was Salaam

 

Regarding where is Allah, so one must know that Allah Says:

"There is none like Him".

Also:

"There is none equal to Him".

 

From these verses we can that there is no creation of Allah that resembles Allah and to believe in such a way is Kufr.

Imam Ghzaali says:

 

“Whoever thinks that Allah is made of a body with organs, then he is an idol-worshipper,Whosoever worships a body is regarded a disbeliever by the Ijmaa (consensus) of all the early scholars (salaf) and the late scholars(muta’akhirun)” (Iljam al-Anam an Ilm al-Kalam).

 

Now one has to remember that Allah is the creator of time and space, and to believe that Allah is also enclosed in time or space is wrong and also Kufr. Also this is resembling Allah to his creation which is wrong.

 

Imam Tahaawi says in his famous book "Aqeedah at Tahaawiyyah"

He (Allah) is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by six directions as all created things are.

 

Imam Najm ud Deen Nasafi says in his Book AlAqeedah an Nasafiyyah

He (Allah) is not a body (jism), nor an atom (jawhar), nor is He something formed (musawwar), nor a thing limited (mahdud), nor a thing numbered (ma’dud), nor a thing portioned or divided, nor a thing compounded (mutarakkab), nor does He come to end in Himself. He is not described by quiddity (al-ma’hiya), or by quality (al-kayfiyya), nor is He placed in space (al-makan), and time (al-zaman) does not affect Him. Nothing resembles Him, that is to say, nothing is like Him.

 

This means that Allah is free and pure from time and space and that limiting Allah to time and space in any way is wrong. It is also wrong to say that he is everywhere or at a specific location. Our belief should however be that Allah's knowledge encounters everything.

 

Wallahu Alam

 

Abu Zaid Uthman bin Mahmood

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetquranicsciences(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/uf/ScholarPage.asp?visitormonid=59834"]SOURCE:[/url]

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Assalamu Alaikum, JazaakAllahu Khairan for all who answered, InshaAllah hopefully my answer will clarify more.

SOURCE:

 

Non of your posts make sense to me. Where was Allah before he created the Arsh, or anything else? Before light and darkness, space, the chair and earth. For Him to have been alone at one time, without a creation, would mean that he had changed once he created the arsh and put it below Him.

 

May Allah please guide us.

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Salaams peeps,

 

This seems to me like a very important issue and I do not want to believe incorrectly for fear of Allah.

 

I cannot see how this question matters. Allah swt has not made it an obligation for you to know where He is. Rasoolullah saw instructed us to reflect upon the creation, not on the Creator. This is an extract from the famous hadith of Jibreel:

 

He (Jibreel as) said, 'Tell me about ihsan.' He (Muhammad saw) said, 'That you worship Allah as if you see Him, for if you don't see Him then truly He sees you.'

 

This is what matters. The answers you are looking for shouldn't make any difference to your imaan or the way you worship your Lord.

 

Peace

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:sl:

 

Allah (swt) is above his throne in the manner that befits His majesty, That is all we know...

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Where is Allah? Here are a few answers from the Holy Quran:

 

"To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing." The Holy Quran 2:115

 

" But to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And He it is that Encompasseth all things. " The Holy Quran 4:126

 

You should know these answers if you study the Holy Quran.

 

classicmo......Since you claim that you are a relatively new muslim, why don't you should go to any Islamic centers or Masjids to study Islam under the guidance of Islamic scholars? I believe they would be pleased to help you. Allah is the All-knowing.

Edited by wiseguy

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Salam,

 

I am a relatively new muslim and one thing is beginning to weigh heavily on my mind. Why is it that some muslims say that God exists above the arsh and some say that he exists without a place. This seems to me like a very important issue and I do not want to believe incorrectly for fear of Allah.

 

The first thing to do is to define "`arsh". Please go to any Islamic centers/Masjids and ask Islamic scholars to define the word for you and then you can discuss your problem with them. I am sure they would be pleased to help you.

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Well as far i know Allah swt is above His creation, He is not in the creation.. He is not carried by Arsh, He is carrying Arsh, Allah is not dependent on anything, but everything depends on Him.. Some scholars says that everthing is in Arsh, Arsh is full of Knowledge, well everyone have their opinion.. Allah swt is source of Everything...

Allah swt knows best..

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calssicmo,

salaam brother...

the error your thoughts are making is:

"you are subjecting Allah subhanohu v ta'laa to the bounds of 'time' viz., a created entity....

past, present and future are for us the created, for Allah subhanohu v ta'laa these remain 'subjects'...so subjecting Allah's definition/description to these limits will bother you...he defines Himself as, "subhan allahi, val hamdulillahi v laa ilaahaa il-Allah v allahu-akbar,v la haula v laa quvvata illa billah".....

this in trnasliteration would mean ,"Allah is pure of any flaws/limits/associates/weaknesses/partners(in every attribute of His[the 99 names/attributes]), and for Him is all praise(and for him is only praise) and there is none worthy of focusing upon/worshipping/asking except Allah,and (most imporatnatly)Allah is greater than any description/definition/transliteration(including this one) and there is no ability to do good or avoid bad without Allah's behest"....

earnestly, if you wish for answers like you asked above,ONLY Allah can answer them for you,because all of us are with limited/created faculties...for me the statement as stated by Him(in bold above) suffices..

i wish you the best of knowledge and a satisfying, faith enhancing answer to your questions...amen...salaam.

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calssicmo,

salaam brother...

the error your thoughts are making is:

 

I don't think I am erring in thought as much as I am confused about the conflicting information. For example:

 

you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetamislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/without.htm

 

Any feedback on this would be appreciated!

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I don't think I am erring in thought as much as I am confused about the conflicting information. For example:

 

 

Any feedback on this would be appreciated!

 

I can't post a link yet so please google "Allah exists without a place".

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Ash-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih Al-'Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah) was asked about what o­ne should say when asked "Where is Allaah?"

 

The Shaykh was asked:

Concerning the statement of some of the people when they are asked, "Where is Allaah?", they reply, "Allaah is present everywhere." Or they say, "He is present." Is this type of reply correct in this general unrestricted sense?

 

Answer:

This answer is false and it is not correct unrestrictedly or restrictedly. If the person is asked, "Where is Allaah?" He should say, "Above the heavens", just as the woman answered the Prophet (Sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) when he asked her, "Where is Allaah?" She said, "Above the heavens."

 

In reference to whoever says, "He is present", o­nly, then this is a type of evading the answer and dodging it. In reference to whoever says, "Verily, Allaah is everywhere", and he means that Allaah himself is actually everywhere, then this is disbelief (Kufr), because it is denying what is proven by the texts. Rather, it is even denying the recorded evidences, the intellectual evidences and even the natural nature, that guide us to believe that Allaah, exalted is He, is High above everything, and that He is above the heavens, and He has risen over His Throne.

 

Ash-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih Al-'Uthaymeen

 

Source: Al-Fataawaa Ash-Shar'iyyah fil-Masaa'il il-'Asriyyah min Fataawaa 'Ulamaa' il-Baladil-Haraam, pp. 28-29.Translation: Aqeel Walker

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Evidence that Allaah is exalted high above His creation and that He is above the heavens

 

Question:

Some people say that Allah is above the heavens (according to one of the ayahs of the quran), and may scholars say that Allah exists without a place, since only the creation has the characteristic of needing a place and We know the ayah "Laysa-ka-mislly-he-shay" - (proving Allah does not resemble his creation), is he everywhere, existing without a place, or above the heavens?

 

Answer:

 

Praise be to Allaah,

 

The people of Sunnah and Jamaa’ah (Ahl al-Sunnah) believe that Allaah is exalted above His creation because of the evidence of the Qur’aan, Sunnah, consensus of the scholars, common sense and man’s innate instinct (fitrah).

 

(1) The Qur’aan describes the "exaltedness" or "highness" of Allaah in different ways, as His being High and Above, and by describing how things come down from Him, and go up to Him, and by stating that He is above heaven. For example (interpretations of the meaning):

 

(Highness):

". . .and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [al-Baqarah 2:255]

 

"Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [al-A’la 87:1]

 

(Above):

"And He is the Irresistible, above His slaves . . ." [al-An’aam 6:18]

 

"They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded." [al-Nahl 16:50]

 

(Things coming down from Him):

 

"He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth . . ." [al-Sajdah 32:5]

 

"Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan). . ." [al-Hijr 15:9]

 

(Things going up to Him):

 

". . . To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it . . ." [Faatir 35:10]

 

"The angels and the Rooh (Jibreel) ascend to Him . . ." [al-Ma’aarij 70:4]

 

(Allaah is above heaven):

 

"Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you . . .?" [al-Mulk 67:16]

 

(2) The Sunnah: many reports were narrated "mutawaatir" (i.e. with a large number of narrators at every stage of the isnaad, such that it is impossible for them all to have agreed on a lie) from the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him), describing his words and deeds and things of which he approved. For example, he used to say "Subhaana Rabbi al-A’laa (Glory be to my Lord Most High)" in sujood, and in some ahaadeeth he is reported to have said "By Allaah Who is above the Throne."

 

Among his deeds is the gesture of pointing up with his finger, when addressing the people in the greatest gathering, on the Day of ‘Arafaah during his Farewell Pilgrimage. He asked the people, "Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said, "Yes!" He asked again, "Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said, "yes!". He asked a third time, have I not conveyed the message?" and they said "Yes!" Each time, he said: "O Allaah, bear witness!" - pointing up to the sky and then at the people. He also used to raise his hands towards heaven when he made du’aa’, as it reported in tens of ahaadeeth. This is proof via his actions that Allaah is exalted and high.

 

An example of an approval of the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) which indicates that Allaah is exalted and high is the hadeeth concerning the young slave girl, to whom the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "Where is Allaah?" She said: "In heaven" He asked, "Who am I?" She said, "The Messenger of Allaah." So he said to her master: "Set her free, for she is a believer."

 

This young girl was uneducated, as many are, and she was a slave, but she knew that her Lord is above heaven. Some misguided people deny that Allaah is above heaven, and say, "He is neither above nor below; neither to the right nor to the left. He is everywhere!"

 

(3) The consensus of the scholars: the salaf agreed that Allaah is above heaven, as is reported by scholars such as al-Dhahabi, may Allaah have mercy on him, in his book Al-‘Aluw li’l-‘Aliy al-Ghaffaar.

 

(4) Common sense: highness is a quality which is associated in people’s minds with perfection. If this is the case, then it should be attributed to Allaah because every absolute perfection should be attributed to Him.

 

(5) The innate instinct of man (fitrah). There should be no dispute that man instinctively knows that Allaah is above heaven. Whenever something overwhelming befalls a person, and he turns to Allaah for help, he looks towards heaven, not in any other direction. But it is strange that those who deny that Allaah is above His creation still raise their hands in supplication to no other direction than towards heaven.

 

Even Pharaoh, the enemy of Allaah who disputed with Moosaa about his Lord, told his minister Haamaan (interpretation of the meaning): "O Haamaan! Build me a tower that I may arrive at the ways, - the ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the god of Moosaa . . ." [Ghaafir 40:36-37]

 

He knew in his heart of hearts that Allaah is real, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): "And they belied them (those aayaat) wrongfully and arrogantly, though their own selves were convinced thereof . . ." [al-Naml 27:14]

 

These are a few of the indications that Allaah is above the heavens; this proof comes from the Qur’aan, the Sunnah, the consensus of the scholars, common sense, man’s own instincts and even the words of the kuffaar.

 

We ask Allaah to guide us towards the Truth.

 

 

Islam Q&A

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

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Evidence that Allaah is exalted high above His creation and that He is above the heavens

 

Islam Q&A

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

 

Please google "al azhar Allah exists without a place". You should get to "Marifah" which will direct you to a pdf. Please read this pdf and respond. This is from Al Azhar university.

 

Thanks again for your help all of you but I still don't agree with any of you. The more that I read, the more that I am convinced that Allah exists without a place.

 

Salam,

 

Mohamed

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